Lebanese army to use force

The Lebanese army command has remembered its duty. A statement today said that the army units will use force against any armed individual or group beginning 6 am May 13th. The army has come under fire for failing to protect citizens.

Meanwhile, Berri has postponed the elections until June 10th.

Comments

[danny]

If it weren't to be so tragic, I'd suggest they use them as a prop at SNL...What a bunch of morons...Are these guys real?

[RebLeb]

Does this mean they'll clear the airport road? or is that asking too much?

[Bad Vilbel]

You're reading this statement wrong, AK.

What it really means is "We'll use whatever means necessary to disarm the PSP/Future". You have to remember, the army is COOPERATING with HA and apparently does NOT view it as hostile.

I know it says "any individual" in the statement, but I'm not holding my breath on this one.

[Afif]

pff.. Good morning

[Jay]

I think it's would an outrage to turn any weapons over to the army now that the thugs of HA have used their weapons internally. I say as long as HA maintains its weapons so should everyone else. Heck every other group should be re-arming after what we've witnessed.

Suleiman is a made-in-Syria poodle and a spineless traitor.

[Jay]

Please read this and be very very PROUD!

Lebanon's '300' heroes (by Walid Phares)
http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2008/05/lebanons_300_he.php

[JoseyWales]

Many unknowable things will unfold soon.

One thing I know now though: the BIGGEST loser in this mess is the fucking army and Michel Suleimane.

The sons of bitches destroyed any credibility they had left in the first 24 hours of this debacle.

I will maintain again my gut feeling that the assassination of Francois Hajj was to emasculate the army for precisely what we are seeing now.

[Bad Vilbel]

Jay (And Ghassan Karam if you're reading this),

Back when I was ranting about law and order and about how the very basic premise for having any kind of meaningful foundation upon which to build a state (Which has been Ghassan's thrust all this time) is the fact that once you allow one side to go beyond the law (in this case, HA and their weapons) you've essentially set the precedent of everyone else to do the same.

I know this seems self-evident, but it bears repeating at this point. This is something the Lebanese as a whole (who are always very proud to skirt the law and to make one-time-only exceptions every day) need to understand before any progress can be made.

And the corollary to the above statement is that the "state" institutions need to be able to ENFORCE the law PRIOR to being able to build any civil discourse.

This is where I have a problem with Ghassan's constant talk of "We need to continue engaging in democracy". That type of statement seems to imply that there is no pre-requisite to democracy. Truth is, before you can get any kind of civil discourse in place, you need to be able to break the hands of those who would ignore it. Democracy is never born out of weakness. It is born out of FORCE.

Put it this way: The only way you can have a successful football match (no matter the winner or loser) is if your referee has the ability to punish the players who break the rules. In Lebanon there is no referee capable of punishing those who break the rules. Result: One side breaks the rules with impunity, and the only possible outcome is that the other side will eventually do the same. If it doesn't, it will get destroyed.

That, my friend, is why this talk of "continuing to exercise peaceful democracy" is a completely useless concept in this country. Peace will have to be IMPOSED, by force, BEFORE you can get the various parties to figure out there is another way (discourse) to resolve differences.

[JoseyWales]

Yes BV,

and the army and/or the prez were supposed to be that arbiter/enforcer.

Army fails again, what a waste of time and money.

[Bad Vilbel]

Most of us knew the army and prez were never capable of being such an enforcer. Some idiots were banking on it, but come on! It was obvious that wasn't to be.

There really isn't a ref to this football match, I'm afraid. Which is why talk of future democracy is meaningless. This state is doomed to be a failure for the long term, because I simply do not see one side able to dominate everyone else and impose a new "rule of law".

The only side that was ever able to do that was the Syrians (Taef through 2005), and since they're a foreign power, who was never really interested in building up our democratic institutions, there was no progress made there. But short of that kind of "break everyone's hands" scenario, there really isn't any way for Lebanon to progress. We're pretty much doomed to continue in the current state of failure.

[Jay]

BV,

Totally agree. Civil discourse and diplomacy with tyrant regimes such as the Syrians, or fascist entities like HA, are perceived as weaknesses and further emboldens their demands rather than result in constructive dialogue. They only understand, and more importantly, respect the language of force.

If the last 3 years has proven anything is that dialogue with the likes of HA is futile. It's only when they're met with equal force they will yield. Let's just hope the courageous people who stand for free, sovereign, and just Lebanon can withstand these thugs, for sadly the State, the Army, and our politicians are constantly failing us!

[naja]

AK, forgive me for changing the subject (albeit not the heart of the matter) but i would like to say this: this Lebanese citizen wishes to apologise to the memory of Pierre Gemayel, for failing to realise that what he, Gemayel, saw in the seventies, was that the word "resistance" can become nothing more than an emotional cover for some of the worst excesses that can be committed against a nation and its people.

I may hold the man guilty for terrible crimes committed in the pursuit of his belief, but I do now understand that he saw much farther than most of us did back then. We're condemned to history repeating itself when we don't read - and heed - its lessons.

[bint ras-beyrouth]

The cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming! meanwhile, back at the ranch (or the now lebanon website) an informal poll shows that the army is believed to be biased by 52% of those polled, while 20% feel the army did the right thing. Not scientific, I know, but Josey hit the nail smack on its head by saying the biggest losers are the army and its command in this whole disaster.

[Vox P,]

sa7 el nom ya Sleiman

[Vox P,]

The sad thing is that Sleiman is probably more worried about his image as a candidate than about the security of the citizens

[Bad Vilbel]

What cavalry?

[ghassan karam]

I have always found it fascinating when two different individuals wind up in doing the same thing at the same time . Jay, the piece on Ya Libnan by Mr. Phares is interesting and very well done. It is interesting to note that my Podcast done on May 11, 2008 uses basically the same structure and makes use of similar and often the same terms.

Can we agree that General Suleiman should not be rewarded for his miserable leadership of the Lebanese Armed Forces? If we do then I suggest that we no longer refer to him as the presumptive nominee but use all the media outlets at our disposal to make the argument that March 14 should rescind its nomination of Mr, Suleiman. If he has any shame and sense of dignity he should withdrw his name and go on a long cruise when his tenure is up in the next few months.

Again let me caution that the sense of despair that I detect at times is a little bit premature. Wars, and this is nothing but a war, are not determined by the results of the early confrontations (Remember what happened to the mighty German Army in WWII in Russia and don't forget the early successes of both the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973). It ain't over until the fat lady sings, and she hasn't made an appearance yet.

[Bad Vilbel]

I certainly agree on that one Gus.

In my book, Suleiman should be court-martialed and tried for dereliction of duty for refusing to obey orders from his civilian boss (the PM/Defense minister). I consider him a traitor to his country, worthy of the firing squad, along with Hassan Nassrallah and the other traitors.

Having said that, I'm not holding my breath about any of that every taking place.

[Jay]

Couldn't help myself...

إنه جبل كمال جنبلاط يا سيد المرتزقة...
http://psp.org.lb/Default.aspx?tabid=107&articleType=ArticleView&articleId=12683

[Sumwan]

Just as a news update (perhaps totally irrelevant):
Aircraft Carrier Harry Truman between Israel and Cyprus (Haaretz).

[Min Canada]

Now that is serious Suman. I will see what I can find out. Back to you asap.

[Min Canada]

The HS Truman is a 12 ship strike group. The Cole (already in the area as well) has 2 other ships with it. Is the Nassau there as well? Nassau has 6 other ships with it. Even without the Nassau strike group, the array is very impressive and should say to anyone the US means business. ESPCIALLY if it is there unannounced. The Truman alone should dominate the Lebanese and Syrian air space. The arsinal on these ships is dominating. This is not a feeble attempt at gun boat diplomacy. This is the real McKoy.

This raises a lot of questions:

Today both the Israelis and the Syrians seem to have broken off talks. Did the Americans win over the Israelis on the issue of peace with Syria?

Have the Israelis finalized their missile defence shield and kept it a secret?

Are the American's done with Mahdi Army? Can they focus on the Levant now?

Can either Israel or the US allow the ILKHANID beach-head in Lebanon stand?

Where did the Truman come from? how many are on board? Are there any chopper activities in the area of Jounieh?

Folks this is very very VERY significant.

My sources are saying NOTHING AT ALL. Which tells me A LOT.

Watch for escalating talk from M14 and a stronger army position now. Yalla they scored a field goal. Now lt's see what happens.

Sumwan, what is the Haaretz link for this info? I've searched their web site and haven't been able to find anything?

[Min Canada]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/982380.html

Thanks Min Canada! Interesting! Hmmmmm . . .!!

Crossing our fingers!

[R]

Hi AK,
I just noticed that there is no link to voicesonthewind in the links category on the right and I am not sure if my recent post would pop up on the feed on the left either. Sorry for the irrelevent comment but I couldnt find your email.

Great work these last few days by the way.

Cheers,
R

[Vox P,]

The carrier's presence isn't related to Lebanon's crisis and I doubt that the US will intervene, but it sure doesn't hurt to have it around.

[fubar]

Damn, Min Canada, where did Truman come from???? Truman has been in the Med for a week. It's not a "secret".

RHODES, Greece (NNS) -- USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) arrived in Rhodes on May 7, for a goodwill port visit as part of the ship's routine deployment in the region.
. . .
Truman entered the Mediterranean Sea May 6 to support the U.S. 6th Fleet's strategic priority of improving maritime security and safety in the region following five months in the Persian Gulf supporting Maritime Security Operations and Operation Iraqi Freedom.

+++++++

"My sources are saying NOTHING AT ALL. Which tells me A LOT."

You might want to think about getting better sources.

Just saying...

[bad vilbel]

Eh. The usual big hubbub about nothing, as usual. The US is NOT going to intervene militarily in Lebanon. End of story. Stop fantasizing, guys.

[ghassan karam]

So how is the fishing Fubar? Nice to hear from you again.

[Vox P,]

Bush offers help for Lebanon army (alternatively: Bush tries to buy out Suleiman)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7397400.stm

[bad vilbel]

That's just talk. There is no way the US is going to provide actual weapons to the Lebanese Army considering it's pretty much in cahoots with HA. There's a reason (well justified, in my opinion) that the US has been so reluctant to help out the LAF with anything but "training".

That won't change until the LAF are purged of HA sympathies and proves itself to be an independent organism, answerable only to the civilian government of Lebanon.

[fubar]

Not fishing, Ghassan, spelunking. I will let you in on one of the lesser known secrets of spelunking. Sometimes you end up with more souveniers than you intended - say like, funky fungal crotch rot.

But enough about my parasites...after all, seems a lot of people are dealing with parasites these days.

Good to see you around again too.

/Lurking lady: You better not be laughing. It's not lady like. ; )

[bad vilbel]

6:30am Fierce battles resumed in Bab alTebbaneh and Jabal Mohsen in north Lebanon at 3 am.

Didn't the army say they stop any parties fighting after 6am on Tuesday??? Let' see if them just words or if actions will ensue.

[Andre]

The army has lost the opportunity to nip things in the bud. Had they confronted HA from the start and made it clear they would be standing b/w them and their targets, this thing would not have mushroomed the way it has. The army's irresponsible bahavior has put the country back on the verge of an all out civil war. Those of you that remember how things happened back in 1975, it started very slowly then deteriorated so quickly and in all parts of the country that it became sort of an avalanche that just could not be stopped. We're getting closer to that breaking point! The army needs to reassert itself quickly and this idiot of Suleiman needs to be sent into retirement.

[bad vilbel]

Wasn't he supposed to retire in August or someshit? Although, there is no mechanism to appoint his successor right now (my guess is if Saniora tries appointing someone, HA will throw another tantrum).

You're right though. The army has been the biggest loser in all this. They failed miserably to do their job, and on top of that, came across as biased towards HA and lost all credibility. Which is exactly why I didn't buy too much into the statement that the army would intervene starting 6am today...

[ADF]

BV: they will start at 6am - I'm quite sure - it's just that they're on the neptunian time zone.

[hh]

Min Canada, check out this update on Naharnet:

2:30pm U.S. Embassy: Due to the lack of usual cargo handling facilities at Beirut airport, the Embassy will begin receiving necessary supplies and materials through U.S. military helicopters.

[JoseyWales]

Ok hh,

The frigging embassy can't get its hamburgers via the airport anymore, so now Navy helipcopters will deliver the meat and ketchup.

What else could it mean??

[Vox P,]

Weapons and ammunition?

[ADF]

"Weapons and ammunition?"
Well, if we stuff them with enough KFC's fried chickens it will clog their veins with so much fat that they'll have a heart attack in no time!

Ps:
Vox - just picking on you :)