Jumblatt calls for an end to bloodshed

In an interview with LBC,  Jumblatt called on Nasrallah to demarcate the borders between his resistance and the state, to avoid bloody conflicts. He said that if there is failure to adopt a defense strategy that would absorb the resistance, then perhaps they could temporarily coexist with the "resistance" to prevent bloodshed, as long as they are clear on what Nasrallah considers to be an infringement on his security.

"I will not respond to Nasrallah, out of respect for his turban. They called me a third and killer before. I will not respond to those kids. This is a characteristic of totalitarian parties, you are either under their command or a traitor," he said, asking  "is Wafiq Choukair worth all this?"

Jumblatt said he will remain in contact with Nabih Berri, whom he called today to relay Hariri's proposal.

He said he ordered his supporters not to engage in street fights.  "Only the state can protect us," he said.

"If he wants to occupy Beirut, he can, but then what? what kind of accomplishment is that?"

"We're confused. They say it's an illegal government, but also want it to revoke its decisions," he said.

He defended the decisions and said they were not meant to target the weapons of the resistance. "We said the issue of weapons will be dealt with through internal dialogue. But we cannot allow the weapons issue to encompass every detail of Lebanese daily life."

"Hizbullah, not the Shias are responsible for what is happening," he said.

Responding to a question on why the army does not act to remove Hizbullah from the airport road, Jumblatt refused to comment on what he said was a sensitive issue, and said he understood the army's decision.

Comments

[JoseyWales]

"is Wafiq Choukair worth all this?"

Very telling question and the answer is "yes".

Nasrallah understands that any backing down, symbolic or otherwise, is another chink in Hezbo's armor. He also understands that that is how you keep the loyalty of all: by defending every signal supporter every time.

On the other end of the spectrum, SANIORA el Charmouta does not understand that every unsolved murder, and every unanswered trangression is another stake in the heart of the state he is supposed to protect.

[Solomon2]

"If he wants to occupy Beirut, he can, but then what? what kind of accomplishment is that?"

Like Jeha, Jumblatt thinks occupation won't mean anything in the long run. He's seen Beirut occupied by Palestinian, Israeli, and Syrian forces. They all left - eventually. What remained constant was that the power of the Jumblatt clan remained intact.

Jumblatt does not accept that Lebanon is considered just a disposable thing for Iran to use in its determination to establish hegemony over the entire middle east. Iran will try to fight a nuclear war with the West on Lebanese territory to establish domination. If successful, both the Arabs and Israel will kowtow to the Persians - but I can't imagine that there would be any Lebanon left afterwards: neither Christian, nor Sunni, nor Shia, nor Druze.

[Pissedoff]

Well, just heard the opposition has completely refused Saad Hariri's proposal.

So no their mask has fallen and the truth is out. We never heard a peep from Hassan Nassrallah about anything relating to the strike or living conditions or the minimum wage. Hasn't he read Lebanese history and seen that no one really wins in a civil war, but that everyone loses? Does he actually think he can win?

He is like a cancer to the country, probably worse than the PLO ever was.

[Doha]

On Kalam Innass, a woman called from Ras il Nabi3 crying, she's hiding with 5 families in their building's parking lot underground. They're hiding from a lot of shelling and don't understand who Hizbullah thugs are fighting. She said the Army is taking a corner and not doing anything and Al-Mustaqbal supporters ran to hide in their homes because they have no weapons.

Hearing her cries was very emotional and moving.

[Doha]

8 dead so far and Hizbullah rejects the government's proposal. Nice words and logic doesn't work with them.

[Joe]

To Solomon2

"...Jumblatt thinks occupation won't mean anything in the long run. He's seen Beirut occupied by Palestinian, Israeli, and Syrian forces. They all left - eventually. What remained constant was that the power of the Jumblatt clan remained intact."

If that's all you comprehended out of this interview then you're just a simpleton. What else could Jumblatt's response be to the fiery blood-thirsty Nasralaha? HA thrives on intimidation and chaos and that's exactly what Jumblatt is denying them. That's how you defeat these backward thugs.

[bad vilbel]

Damn!

Well, this is what happens when one side gets to keep having its way and keeping its weapons.

And so much for M14 having a plan, or whatever that argument was where they initiated this confrontation to take out HA once and for all. Now all of a sudden Jumblatt seems to be backing down, and HA is being given free reign in the streets of Beirut.

Fuck this country.

[Solomon2]

"intimidation and chaos and that's exactly what Jumblatt is denying them. That's how you defeat these backward thugs."

By letting them run rampant? Does Jummie think they will grow tired or show remorse?

"you're just a simpleton"

I'm sure that's a much more appealing thought than considering I might NOT be a simpleton and therefore the terrible fate I've outlined for Lebanon may come to pass if Hezbollah isn't defeated. So I very much hope you are right and I am wrong.

[Homo Libanus]

Jumblatt should be President. F+&^% sectarianism.

[Doha]

A Hizbullah MP said on LBC that the government's decision with regards to the communications network and the airport security is not timed right and he tied these decisions with geostrategic concerns, and asked whether these decisions are timed with some ships crossing the Suez Canal and talked about the "Texas Horse". Whatever!!! What does that mean?

C'mon, every time you talk about weapons or anything close to that, they bring up geostrategy as if all of the Lebanese have to pay a price for Hizbullah's security, and anything else does not matter.

They make sure some Hizbullah "wonks" call up TV channels to join in talk shows and start throwing big conspiracy theory-type stories to scare us enough to shut up.

[Bad Vilbel]

Doha, yeah. Same old shtick everytime.

And this from the Shiite Mufti of South Lebanon (Al-Amin?)

We need more voices like HIS:

Confirming Jumblatt's statement about the Shiites, Shiite Mufti of south Lebanon warned the government against rescinding its decisions

"This is not a legitimate demand, because the state when it takes its decisions must apply these decisions, and there are institutions ( like the parliament ) and mechanisms in order to discuss or voice objections to these decisions within the institutions of the Lebanese state. The decision to take to the streets and to disrupt the lives of people and expose the country to danger is totally unacceptable . " the Mufti said in response to Hezbollah's riots yesterday and today after meeting with Sunni Grand Mufti Sheikh Kabbani

[JoseyWales]

I love the Tyre Mufti and he makes a lot of sense.

But WHERE in the Hell are Saniora, and Murr and Sabeh or the GOVERNMENT spokesman???

It their job to CONFRONT, EXPLAIN, and PROVIDE A SENSE OF DIRECTION.

As to the army, what?? Like the old Lahoud days: the south was too tough of a place to send the army, now Beirut is too tough.

The army is this Ferrari to be kept in the garage for fear it may break. Looks good but don't use it.

[Bad Vilbel]

JW,

Right. I've been wondering for 2 days now why we haven't heard from our PRIME MINISTER! He should be the one speaking to the nation at this juncture, not Saad, not Jumblatt.

And yes, by all means, let's keep the army in the garage. I still don't understand that. What are these idiots saving it for? To fight Israel? (Cue laughter)

[Vox P.]

Capitulation. I knew it. We should have asked for US or even Israeli involvement.

[Jay]

Already talk of "Capitulation" and "no plan"... patience guys, patience guys. Hey maybe M14 is adopting a Gandhi-inspired resistance ;)

[Vox P.]

I know that Hassouna has more men and weapons, so with the army withdrawing it was only a matter of time before M14's pussycats capitulated. But Hezbollah will pay a price for what happenned today: the remaining groups are going to rearm quickly and massively now. Hezbozo is the strongest on the ground, but not strong enough to take control of the whole country, so there's nothing they can do to prevent the others sects of rearming. Even if there's a cease-fire in the coming days, there will be a general explosion in the coming months.

[Bad Vilbel]

Yeah. I've been holding off on making that comment so far, since events were unfolding rather quickly. But now that it's nighttime in Beirut, and the news flow seems to have slowed, let me say this:

Based on Jumblatt's comments, and Hariri's proposal, if THIS is the best M14 can do (and still no word from our PM), then these imbeciles from M14 should've never provoked HA.

I was all for imposing law and order, firing Shukeir, taking down the telecom network, but if M14 went into this without a plan to actually follow through, they would've been better off keeping their mouths shut. If you wanna talk the talk (like Jumblatt did 2 days ago before this started), you better have the Army on the ready and willing to back it all up. As it stands right now, they would've been better off shutting their mouths and turning over the country to Nassrallah. I mean what's the point in barking if you're not willing to actually follow through. At least Nassrallah has followed through on his barking. M14, what a bunch of pathetic losers.
In a weird roundabout kind of way, Aoun is right: The government is to blame for letting things get to this point, and for failing to follow through on the steps they said they were going to take.

[danny]

I think we should all wait and see...The thugs of HA are exposed "conquering" Future offices. What a strategic maneuver. I am not worried and neither are the leaders of March 14th. We should wait and see. In the meantime whatever happened the purity of the "resistance''s guns!

Chill guys. The HA "gunmen" have not "advanced nowhere yet and they know it! They are in a trap and like rabid dogs are trying to bite left and right.No battle is won on the first night.

There is more to the plan; I'm sure

[Bad Vilbel]

Frankly danny,

I'm not so sure. I don't see any practical way of taming HA at this point. Sure, you're right, all they've done so far is nothing but terrorizing and small potatoes. It's not like they've taken control of the country as a whole.

But again, short of them being taken out militarily (army or foreign power), the BEST we can hope for at this point is HA pulling back to where it was before, in return for some new concessions from the already non-existent state. In other words, business as usual, back to where we were, with HA having won another small round of blackmail.

And if that's gonna be it, then what was the point of this?

[Jay]

This is being played out like a game of chess, a move and counter-move. HA thugs are capable of creating chaos but then what? They simply can't control the situation on the ground. It's a no-win situation for them. Just sit back and watch them self-destruct.

[Bad Vilbel]

Again,

I don't see how they're going to self-destruct.
How will they be stripped of their weapons?
It's not going to be through dialogue (Nassrallah has made sure of that). It's not going to be by force (I don't think other militias have the ability to defeat HA completely).

So, based on that conclusion, what's the BEST positive outcome going to be? HA agrees to get off the streets in a few days. Ok, great, woohoo. Then what? Back to where we were prior to this issue.

Show me a viable scenario of what might happen to actually change things to where they're not the same (or worse) than 2 days ago. I can't think of one.

I can see it already. A few more days of posturing, until some Arab envoy arrives to "barter a cease fire" at which point the gunmen pull off the street, and M14 agrees to "discuss things" with Nas. And we're back to where we were 2 days ago.

I honestly do not see ANY other realistic scenario.
- Lebanese Army intervenes and takes on HA (unlikely)
- A foreign army invades to restore order? (even less likely)
- Nassrallah backs down and surrenders his weapons? (hell will freeze over first)

Seriously. I'm looking for scenarios here that I havent thought about... Help me out.

[danny]

BV,

This is not a one night stand...The whole world is seeing the "unveiling" of the HA. They are just that:THUGS. WJ was calm and collected. I have not heard any panic from any of the loyalist camp. As I said, let them "conquer" a few social offices! One of the main reasons of the government move(march 14) was drawing the hizb into the trap. They bit on the bait! The unmasking of the HA goes a long way in exposing them for the Islamist sectarian jihadist ideology. The Christian cover is gone. Aoun has turned to orange juice. Like WJ said; so you take Beirut; So what? What next?. believe me they will not be able to take Beirut! It is one thing fighting from your bunkers in dug tunnels against a foe who does not know the terrain and another matter a street to street fighting!

BV there's more at play here. usually it gets worse before getting better...HA is caught in a quicksand; they are fighting no one. The are killing innocent people...and they have the divine might. Do you see how stupid they are looking by the day? I have not heard from the Berri camp yet. Any news?

[Bad Vilbel]

Danny,

Great, so we exposed HA...Wait...WE ALREADY KNEW HA for what they were. What exactly have you exposed? To who?
You're telling me the world was waiting for TODAY to figure out that HA is a bunch of thugs? I'm pretty sure they all knew this already. So this "exposing" accomplishes nothing.

And you say "then what?". Let me ask YOU the same question. Ok, so you've "exposed" HA for being thugs. Now what? We go back to where we were 2 days ago, in a stalemate?
Or what? What happens next? What does this "exposing of HA" accomplish?
Someone in Moscow is suddenly going to go "Oh crap! Turns out these HA guys are thugs! Ok, I'm sending in the red army to wipe them out!" ???
What then?

Ok. So they look stupid. So? how does that accomplish anything? You know who else looks stupid? The government (for disappearing). And you know who else looks stupid? The army.

Ok. So now we've established everyone looks stupid.
And you get points of that?

How is that getting me anywhere closer to a peaceful modern Lebanon? How is that getting me closer to disarming the thugs in question?

You can make a thug look stupid all you want. In the end, you don't get points for making him look stupid. And he can still kill you. Not much glory in making him look stupid if you're DEAD.

[Andre]

I have to say that after all that we've witnessed so far, there is one sad truth that stands above everything else, Hizb gets its way through intimidation, resorting to violence and coercion while the army and the legal authorities get spanked as they helplessly watch the country descent into chaos and mayhem. As I explained a few days before all of this started, Hizb knows how fragile the governemnt's authority is and how to manipulate the situation to its own advantage. This thing will die down, and somehow there will be a "compromise" to defer all these issues to the so called dialogue table, and Berri will be the one to serve us with the news thanks to his "good" services. Watch, see and marvel at the absurdity of our political class. We're screwed as a nation, we just don't deserve to be called an independent state, our leaders just don't understand the meaning. We're back to the dark ages indeed!

[Jester theFool]

I have never been so ashamed of being Lebanese.

[Solomon2]

Hizb knows how fragile the governemnt's authority is

Hizb opposed the Nasr al-Bared operation but the Army carried it out anyway. Jumblatt may be giving out an additional clue as to why the Army hasn't been employed when he hinted at "coexistence". Basically, if the Army is successfully employed in a sectarian struggle that spells the end, sooner rather than later, of Lebanon's confessional system and the corresponding influence, prestige, and even wealth of men like Jumblatt and Hariri. Sure, Jummie came to D.C. and gave a speech or two extolling democracy a few months ago, but that may have been "covering the bases" - he started moving in the opposite direction after he went home.

I think if the Army had been employed right away they would have done the job with minimal internal conflict. Not now, however - their inaction has sapped morale and the ever-more-polarized sectarianism has sharpened internal strains. If Lebanon's leaders continue to refuse to act, then within days, even hours, we may see the 70s & 80s all over again, as the Army falls apart and all the lovely hundreds of millions of dollars of American military aid spent training and equipping the L.A. gets distributed to the militias on a proportional basis - proportional to the power they exert over the Army, that is.

[Bad Vilbel]

Andre. This is PRECISELY what I've been saying all along (today and in the past). This is how bullies operate. They get their way through intimidation. And the ONLY proven way to put a stop to blackmail is by breaking the bully's hands. No amount of "reasoning" will EVER work. It's antithesis to the bully's very nature. They are INCAPABLE (it's not that they don't want to, they CAN'T) operate any other way.

And as i said earlier today, M14 is at fault at 2 levels for the current events:
1. For allowing things to get to where they are today. For providing the damned "Resistance" with the cover it needed to build itself up (I still remember Saniora praising the Resistance 2 years ago).
2. For the provocation started off by Jumblatt last week about the airport camera and the telecom network. Don't get me wrong. I'm entirely AGAINST illegal networks and cameras. But if M14 wasn't ready to back up their words with actual actions, they should've shut the fuck up.

[Bad Vilbel]

I too am extremely ashamed of being Lebanese. We're a bunch of uncivilized imbeciles.

[ghassan karam]

Two points:

(1) To the many that are fed up with the develoments in Lebanon and feel comfortable in making statements that lay the guilt on everyone else except for themselves I have one simple question? What have you really done to change things. Let us not forget that The Nation IS US.

(2) The events of the last 36 hours demonstrate yet one more time the wide gulf between modernity and the Lebanese system. What passes for sophistication and democracy in Lebanon is not much different that a battle turf between two gangs in LA or two mafia families in NY and NJ. There is no understanding of the concept of law and order. Only force and threats count. Where else would you find a group that represents the official government proud of the fact that their answer to an illegal blockade of the country's international airport is not to call on the official forces to remove such barricades but to ask their own henchmen to blockade some other roads, Beqaa in this case, so that the parties will eventually trade one blockade for another. Go figure.

I always presumed that ther would be a limit to how low we can go. But guess what, I was wrong, our genius is to find ever new ways to hit a lower and lower bottom still.

[ghassan karam]

Two points:

(1) To the many that are fed up with the develoments in Lebanon and feel comfortable in making statements that lay the guilt on everyone else except for themselves I have one simple question? What have you really done to change things. Let us not forget that The Nation IS US.

(2) The events of the last 36 hours demonstrate yet one more time the wide gulf between modernity and the Lebanese system. What passes for sophistication and democracy in Lebanon is not much different that a battle turf between two gangs in LA or two mafia families in NY and NJ. There is no understanding of the concept of law and order. Only force and threats count. Where else would you find a group that represents the official government proud of the fact that their answer to an illegal blockade of the country's international airport is not to call on the official forces to remove such barricades but to ask their own henchmen to blockade some other roads, Beqaa in this case, so that the parties will eventually trade one blockade for another. Go figure.

I always presumed that ther would be a limit to how low we can go. But guess what, I was wrong, our genius is to find ever new ways to hit a lower and lower bottom still.

[LebExile]

I agree with Danny..

wait and see, you want scenarios...

1. the Arab nations (Sunni dominated ones) go on the defensive... they are at war in Iraq, now in Lebanon ... this isn't going to sit well with most of them.

2. If the US and Israel decide to attack Iran/hez - do you think anyone is going to give a damm

3. the Lebanese government is in a prime position to call on the help of the UN (resolution 1559) and the US

4. Hiz have just given the Lebanese government reason enough to declare them a terrorist organisation... with the arming and money coming from Iran, the US has the smoking gun it needs

5. the unprovoked attack against innocent civilians is not sitting too well on the Arab street - or at least the Sunni dominated Arab street - whatever that is.

6. this could be the lebanese governments way of telling the international community we need better weapons - and we need them now!!!

seriously though, I cannot imagine the government wont call on the help of the US - their warship is just off the coast for christs sake!!!

[Bad Vilbel]

LebExile,

You're on crack if you think Israel or the US are going to left a finger to help the Lebanese government with anything other than words and more UN resolutions on paper.

Aside from that, the points you listed are not scenarios. They're all along the same line as the earlier "HA has been exposed for what they truly are" (to the Arab street, to the US, to whoever). All nice and well, but that doesn't actually make them go away.

As for Ghassan's comment. As much as I agree about how lame it is that the M14 "militias" retaliate by doing the same thing (blockades), what exactly do you expect when the army refuses to defend these people's neighbourhoods? The utter failure here is on the government and on the army command for refusing to protect its citizens. You can't really blame the citizens for trying to protect themselves after that. In my mind, Michel Suleiman should be charged with deriliction of duty and relieved of his command for refusing to obey the government in instituting state of emergency. In any REAL system, that would be the way it would work.
Then again, we're not a real country, are we?

[ghassan karam]

BV,
I guess that I am to blame for not being very clear about the point of acting tit for tat. The tragedy is not that private groups are left to fend for themselves and so they choose to confront the acts of hooliganism by counter hooliganism. The real tragedy is that a group that refers to itself as "opposition" and guardians of the state chose to oppose a state measure through totally tribal destructive and illegal means. Instead of taking lawful measures to counter the illegal activities the official government instructs its supporters to take equally hooligan measures as a tactic to counter balance the illegal policy of the opposition. Is this any different than the Bloods vs the Crips? This is a typical mafia turf war out of The Godfather. How bankrupt can a government be? If in Lebanon the answer is: Not bankrupt enough. ( BTW, the above is not a personal analysis but an outright policy articulated by spokespersons of various March 14 groups).

[Bad Vilbel]

Agreed Ghassan,

I don't think the "government" per se is the one sending out the pro-M14 militias, mind you, but your point still stands.

And this is exactly why I said earlier that:
1. M14 should've never provoked HA if it didnt have LEGAL (i.e. army) plans to see this through.
2. Michel Suleiman, by refusing to implement the state of emergency and disobeying direct orders from his boss (the minister of defense) is guilty of dereliction of duty and should be sacked (and tried).
3. This fight should've been between the legal state's tools (Army, ISF) and the thugs. The fact that we haven't heard from the PM, and that the army and ISF have been confined to their barracks is what is most telling here.
4. I know M14 and the "government" are considered one and the same, in this shithole of a country, but from a legal perspective (Since you and I are all about the law), Jumblatt and Hariri are 2 MPs with "private militias" and do not legally or technically speak for the government. Where the fuck is Saniora? Where the fuck is the army? where the fuck is the state? Completely absent. The actual government (as opposed to the M14 "movement") has done NOTHING at all to protect the citizenry from what is, in theory, 2 private militias.
I am making it a point to distinguish between M14 and "the government" because that is a distinction that is sadly lacking in Lebanon (and again, part of the root of the problem, where everything gets dealt with outside of the state's institution).

Saniora lost ALL MORAL HIGH GROUND he might have had when he passed the decision to tackle illegal cameras and replace airport security chief. on that day, he was speaking as a state institution. Today, he is absent (again, to me, Jumblatt and Hariri are NOT official government spokespersons). In other words, the government has failed COMPLETELY and UTTERLY.

Which is why I am not all excited like some of the commenters here about how glorious it is that HA has been exposed (like we didn't all know about them already).

What's been exposed in the last 2 days is the fact that Lebanon does not have a government or armed forces capable of doing SQUAT (let alone enforcing laws or protecting citizenry). If you ask me, THAT is what's been exposed.

So you guys over there gloating about how stupid this is making HA look can knock it off. We already knew HA were a bunch of thugs. Big deal. But those of us who had a tiny bit of hope that the incompetent folks in govt. had even the vaguest notion as to what constitutes law and order have learned the hard way the fallacy of such an illusion.

[January]

Guys, let us forget ideal situations for a while and look at whats happening on the ground. In Lebanon we have a state, which in theory must uphold its position because it is the legitimate power, that is the government system and any internal conflicts must be solved internally; but what does the state do when faced with the possibility of its citizens plunging into a sectarian war again? Worse even, having foreign-mainly US troops- bombrad the city to fight Hizbollah? We've got a nation to preserve and -as hard as it may be- we must compromise with our fellow citizens to find a solution. Pride will only get us more bloodshed. It pains me so to feel that there is no way out but for the government to back out, but is there another solution besides war? In that case I would choose the compromise. Anything is better than war, let alone civil war. Do we want foreign troops again breathing down our necks? Think what do we need to save the country because if we go down that road again I am seriously afriad for the survival of our national identity.

[VOR]

HA has gone way too far now to back off, they are probably going to dictate terms to whatever is left of this government and restore the status quo that prevailed prior to March 2005. The HA led opposition is positioning itself to become the de facto power in Lebanon and in that case, we're witnessing the beginnings of what they have been planning all along, a state under syrian and iranian tutelage.