Ghandour and Qabalan found dead

Breaking news: The bodies of Ziad Ghandour and Ziad Qabalan were found in the predominantly Druze Chouf district of Mount Lebanon at 7:30pm Beirut time. They were reportedly found behind a gas station 500 meters from the highway connecting Beirut to Sidon.

For background information, see the post below. More updates soon.

Update 1. Note the timing. Today is the second anniversary of the Syrian "withdrawal" from Lebanon.

Update 2 (2:20pm EST). Walid Jumblatt has refused to call this a political crime, preferring to wait for the outcome of the investigation.

LBC's correspondent said the bodies were found in a ditch near the station, and showed signs of torture and mutilation.

LBC is airing footage of crowds gathering in Wata al-Musseitbeh, Ghandour's and Qabalan's neighborhood.

Update 3. According to Defense Minister Elias Murr the killers are relatives of Adnan Shamas (see post below) and are being pursued by the security forces

Update 4. According to al-Mustaqbal, Ziad Ghandour was shot twice in the face, and Qabalan three times in the neck and ear. The killing took place 48 hours before the bodies were discovered.

Comments

[Zvi]

This is absolutely horrible. But Jumblatt is right. When the rule of law prevails, everyone is safer.

The truth cannot be determined through knee-jerk reactions; it can only be determined through a level-headed and professional investigation.

When the guilty party is found, he/she/they must be punished severely - in accordance with the law.

[BadVilbel]

Sadly, I don't really expect this will be any different than normal. The rule of law will be ignored. This whole matter will be politicized. No one will be caught. And someone, surely, will blame the "zionists" while others blame the Syrian cronies.

More of the same.

I hate to sound so callous, in the light of lives lost, specially that of a 12-year old. But these people never learn.

[JoseyWales]

When the guilty party is found, he/she/they must be punished severely - in accordance with the law.

If I were not so numb Zvi, I'd say you should go into comedy.

BTW, what were the circumstances of the abduction? Why was the 12-year old with the older guys (or were they not together)??

[LebExile]

This is just another attempt by the Syrians to provoke sectarian conflict, the problem - March 14 aren't taking the bait - each time the Syrians kill a politician, the file gets added to the international tribunal file, and the pressure on the Syrians builds up a little more. They have finally decided to attack civilians and provoke the people directly - this looks like it may work, but I doubt it will - it may cause some protests, or fist fight, but, it is driving the March 14 group closer together.

The last option that the Syrians will consider, and will when this dosen't work is that they will probably assasinate a March 8 leader, and order their minions to go down and start street battles over it. I can just imagine it, a March 8th leader gets killed - wither by shooting or bomb and then, the hordes are ordered to march down to downtown Beirut and begin ransacking the place.

People naturally will resort to deadly force to protect their properties and voilla - you have Cival War II.

[Charlie]

This is sick, what kind of animal pulls the trigger and kills a couple of young boys, this is truly appalling!!! I don’t care if these people hide in the deepest hole HA land has to offer, the government needs to bring these people to justice and through the book on them.

I am really amazed at the level of ignorance and brutality the Lebanese can harbor sometime.

[Kody]

Well its started!

[fubar]

Charlie,

Throw the book at them? What book? There is no justice system in the civilized world capable of rendering justice to someone who brutally murders a 12 year old boy. ... to quote BV ...

I wish i could do that...

[Charlie]

Fubar,

You are right there is no law that can do full justice by this poor child, for him it is all over. The only thing left that animals like that should receive is a public execution.

[Bad Vilbel]

Fubar,

You can't bring yourself to quote me? :)
I don't bite.

I do hope the perps are found and receive a public execution.
Yes, I know, in the civilized world, the death penalty is almost obsolete and all that, but this ain't the civilized world...

[fubar]

BV,

"I know that Lebanon has never had the real rule of law. I don't dellude myself. But sometimes, with the perspective that comes from living in the US (or other law-friendly nations), one starts to get frustrated when things are right there, for all to see, written black on white, on paper.

Don't you want to grab all these fucks from their necks, everytime they utter some inane comments and scream into their ears while brandishing the constitution: "The parliament elects the president. The people elect the parliament. Mr Qassem. You are a private citizen. You get ONE vote. Go exercise it and STFU. You don't get to veto presidents!"

I wish i could do that...

Posted by: Bad Vilbel | Tuesday, April 24, 2007 at 01:21 AM"

I did quote you, right down to the uncapitalized i.

It struck me then as the perfect expression of your frustration and resignation.

The be honest, I was using that perfect expression of yours as a double entendre.

Frustration and resignation, and...

give them to me with no questions asked...

Your right, this ain't the civilized world. And sometimes, some of us forget that...Just because we wish it so, does not make it so.

[Zvi]

BV, Josey,

For the record, I think that it was done by Damascus. When I hear the evidence, it will almost certainly implicate the Baathist f***s. But I'm not universally right, and crazy people exist everywhere. Not all of them work for terror groups or states.

I am fairly sure that this WILL be politicized. I expressed a wish that it not be, and praised Jumblatt for not pouring fuel on the fire.

[BadVilbel]

Fubar,

Got it. I misread your initial comment.

Zvi,

To be honest, I don't think this kind of incident is going all the way up to the Assad regime. They're a lot busier assassinating politicians and the such to go kidnap a 12-year old civilian.
My guess is this is indeed tribal vendetta (at its worse).
But of course, this WILL be politicized, already has been. So far, though, Jumblatt has done an admirable job keeping a lid on things on his end. The hope is that this is treated as a criminal matter (not a political one), but that it be PROSECUTED TO THE FULL EXTENT.
The problem is, when people get away with these kinds of monstrosities, because of some political cover, THEN things get politicized. If the rule of law was applied, and the perps caught, tried (and executed), then it would be hard to politicize it.

[frankyb]

The nature of the killing pointed towards a revenge killing.they had been shot in the head.This is not a planned assassination,it was individual in nature,lets leave it at that.well done joumblatt though,i even hear he spoke with nasrallah for the first time since ages.

[Shunkleash]

Since when have the lebanese devolved into "tribes" that they must now met out "tribal justice". If this was an act of "revenge" then let it be so. But we are not tribal people leave that to the rats who live in the desert and screw their sheep.

Regardless there is absolutely no reason/justification why a 12 year old child should be so brutally murdered and I do not care what religion you are...even if you argue that islam is an inherently violent religion and this was a blood libel...it was still a child and whoever did this will GO TO HELL and not "paradise".

Finally, to all the pessimists out there stop being so dramatic with your tales of imminent destruction of the lebanese "state"...i for one firmly believe that there will be no return to civil war or anything approaching that...some bloodletting yes, very possible...wholesale death and destruction not on the cards.

Shunkleash (PBUH)

[BadVilbel]

Actually, Shunkleah, we've ALWAYS been tribes. I don't know why you seem surprised.

Anyone who was around around 1975 would know that.

[BadVilbel]

Tribal Justice vs. Rule of Law

The chicken and the egg. Which one comes first? Clearly, one is there because the other isn't. And vice versa.

Behold the words of someone attending the funeral today:

"It was the Shamas family, and they will pay for it!" said Sawsan Qorfali, 40, who came with her family to the funeral. "When they killed Ghandour, it is like they killed one of my sons," she said, standing next to her son Rabieh, 14.

"Our men will deal with the criminals if the state doesn't get to them soon," Qorfali said.

Needless to say, similar thoughts probably drove the Shamas family to commit this murder in the first place.

Tribal justice is bad and uncivilized. We all agree on that. But it is there because the state doesn't act on the rule of law enough. People feel they have to take matters into their own hands, because if they don't, the state won't do a thing.

Yet another reason why the rule of law and civic society are PARAMOUNT to a self-respecting state/nation/country/peopel.

[JoseyWales]

if the state doesn't get to them soon," Qorfali said.

If it was revenge, it's because the state was absent.

If nothing happens here, there will be more revenge.

I hate to be cynical, but it is when people are in shock, and denials are pouring from everywhere that the state, if serious, needs to act and warn everyone in sight to get out of the way.

Then again, the army gets shot at, every other day and they're, you know, ...investigating...

[BadVilbel]

Yup. That was my point. This is exactly where the state needs to step in and ensure the rule of law is above all and applies to all. The people need to be shown that there is a set of rules that will be applied, and that they don't get to make up their own rules.

If the government have ANY competence whatsoever (cue Ghassan's diatribe about their lack of competence...), no expense will be spared to bring the culprits to justice, FAST, before this matters is buried and an example is made of said culprits.

[ghassan karam]

Jumblatt has managed again to distinguish himself from the rest and to rise above the fray. For the past year or so he has actedwith courage, principle and integrity. His actions warrant what this observer has been calling for, for a long time. Humblatt has earned the right to be reevaluated apart from his ignoble past. People do change. History is full of "transformative" moments without which many of the greatest figures in many a field would not have arisen.
May I strongly recommend , for those that read Arabic, todays column in AN Nahar by Suhr Bahasiri who has rightly become one of our best and most prescient commentators. Suhr credits Mr. Jumblatt for his effective efforts in acting as a responsible statesman should. But what is even more important she has managed to write the best piece yet about the kidnapping in which she execrate scathingly what passes for a ruling politicos.
We have a chance to demonstrate that we reject sectarianism in all its forms and what better way to show that than to nominate officially Jumblatt for the office of the presidency if for nothing else but the fact that he has chosen to look at the human side of the kidnapping tragedy instead of only politicizing it. Shame on the Lebanese media, so called leaders and masses for not raising , even once, the human dimension of this barbaric act. Isn't time that we at least progress to burning effigies instead of beheading/shooting humans?

[Jeha]

Ghassan,

I fear we're past that point where humanity matters anymore; whoever the murders are, people made up their minds about it. And since each side made up a "different" mind, the actions of what passes for a government are bound to further dis-enfranchise many.

In engineering, we have a word for this situation; unstable equilibrium. Much like a poorly shored structure, for all practical purposes, Lebanon has fallen. What remains now is to see how or whether it will rise up again... Or what rises in its place.

Our greedy neighbours need to recall that Lebanon's demise, like a Canary in the coal mine, will only herald their own as the sectarian rot spreads.

[ghassan karam]

Jeha,
Your analogy that the current Lebanese situation is similar to an unstable equilibrium is an apt one. Economics has borrowed the concept of stable and unstable equilibrium from the natural sciences. In economics a stable equilibrium is the foundation of the market system. It does not imply as some would like to suggest non dynamic conditions. On the contrary it simply postulates that the system is equiped with a self adjusting mechanism. Any outside shocks that cause a move away from equilibrium will eventually come back to the initial equilibrating position , all things being equal. And that is how a well behaved developed law abiding society functions. The perturbations will be modulated so as to preserve the freedom, liberty and efficiency of the set up. Jeha, I real love this analogy of yours. Lebanon, unfortunately has always operated under the conditions of an unstable equilibrium. Any move away from equilibrium will become explosive and amplified. We are in the "twilight zone" the phase where there are no forces to guarantee a return to equilibrium, the survival of the whole system is at risk and if it does survive that would be purely accidental. That is a dim but realistic picture.

[fubar]

AK,

Think about opening a new thread. There is just something distasteful and disrespectful about moving on in the comments section under this heading.

No offense to anyone else, and maybe it is just me, but, well, I am asking nice.

Thanks in advance (or not, up to you).