Shia Mufti: Hizbullah put its ideology ahead of national interests

Hizbullah MP Ali Ammar accused him of being on the payroll of March 14, and Nasrallah asked him to shut up and stop his "instigation" against Hizbullah. But Ali al-Amin, the Shia mufti for Tyre and Jabal Amel, which covers most of Hizbullah's zone of influence, is making history in Lebanon. He is reclaiming the Shia voice, which he says speaks for the Lebanese project, and not Hizbullah's Iranian project, which puts national interest last. 

Important words from a press conference he held yesterday that I (humbly) translated and summarized below. (Source: Al-Balad, September 14. Arabic text here.)

Our presence alone in the Arab-Israel struggle is illogical, because we are part of an Arab nation, part of a whole… If all [Arab countries] choose confrontation then we will be part of this confrontation. The part cannot bear the duties of the whole, which (the duties) are not the resistance of one party, or the Shia sect or not even all Lebanese.

Al-Amin rejected the Hizbullah logic "they use in defending our country," adding that " the country is not yours alone, the country is mine and yours and we all have to agree on how to defend our country."

If you ask people: are you with Hizbullah's project which impairs the (Lebanese) state project? They respond: we are with the state and with Hizbullah against Israel and not with Hizbullah in obstructing the state project. This is the opinion of the majority of Shia and not the opinion of a minority or a few individuals.

Referring to the situation in the south before the army deployment,  he said: "the state is not present through a police station or a small ineffective military contingent."

Asked about Wilayat al-Faqih, the basis of Hizbullah's ideology, al-Amin said that Hizbullah puts Wilayat al-Faqih above national interests even though Khomeini's ideology does not work in Lebanon. He said that during disputes in the south, they always put Iran first, ahead of the south, and now they're putting Iran first at the expense of Lebanon.

They say may Lebanon go ( fall to pieces) but the [Islamic] republic stay… this is the wrong determination...

He cited as an example what Ali Ammar said when he launched an attack on other political parties and then sent his regards to Khamenei in Iran.

Hizbullah is not connected to any (Iranian) President, reformist or not. Hizbullah is directly attached to Wilayat al-Faqih. That is why they were not on good relations with Preisent Mohammad Khatami when he was in power…

Al-Amin said his job is not to create an alternative to Hizbullah, but to alert to mistakes and point to paths that need to be rectified. Whether or not people will choose other parties (than Hizbullah) is up to them to decide.

On the subject of the resistance integrating into the army, he said:

I don't see how that would diminish Hizbullah. Hizbullah's stated objectives are defending Lebanon, and the Lebanese army that is deploying in large numbers in the south with important international support is (the army) concerned with protecting Lebanon. And when Hizbullah's military wing joins that army, the army becomes stronger, and the arms that Hizbullah would hand over to the army become part and parcel of the army, because it is part of the state.

In an interview with al-Mustaqbal, al-Amin defended the Lebanese cabinet against treason charges leveled by Hizbullah following Tony Blair's visit, saying that only the Lebanese government decides what governments or heads of states it wants to have relations with, and that it should not have to ask the parties' (read Hizbullah's) opinions.

The state project has been launched and is on track. We are all expected to support it.

Comments

[Lazarus]

such a coincidence. i just read a few articles concerning this on assafir and albalad, and was going to post something ... but now there is no need to :)

-l.

[bad vilbel]

This is great news.

Abu Kais, you're right, the "Lebanon project" (part of the so-called regional plan I've often described) is currently well under way. The lines have been drawn between the pro-West side of Lebanon and the pro-Iran side.

When I first started talking about this, my fear was that this line would be drawn along sectarian lines: Shia vs. The rest.
It is good news to see that the line is not as sectarian as I thought it might be. Shia voices are speaking out for the Lebanese project and against the hezbollah-iran project. That is very encouraging.

I have to say here that the magnitude of Al-Amin's dissent is not to be understated. This is probably the first time in 25 years that such dissent within the shia ranks has even been possible.

And as Abu Kais said, we're all expected to stand behind the Lebanon project. We better. It's a matter of life and death for Lebanon. It's that simple.

[e]

Would it be fair to say that the Mufti was emboldened by the war, or did he speak his mind against HA before?
e

[bad vilbel]

It would be fair to say he was emboldened by the war.

Read this article (i just posted it on my blog). Very much in line with what we're discussing here.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1157913624183&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer

[bad vilbel]

Oops. I don't think the link came out right.

Try this.

[Jeha]

The real remarkable thing about the comments is not that he made them. It is that he can still make them and not be assassinated by "zionist agents working to sow the discord among lebanese and arabs".

He is still Junior with respect to Fadlallah, whose silence is ever more interesting. I wonder where this guy stands...

[Jeha]

The Syrians are loosing their touch;

Someone should look at a satellite photo or a map of damascus.

According to the "Lebanese Lobby", Assad's residence is very close to the American embassy.

[Hassan]

Jeha,
I think Fadlallah is siding with HA recently.
If I'm not mistaken, he did criticize Blair's visit (http://www.almustaqbal.com/stories.aspx?StoryID=195172).
Fadlallah recently rejected disarming HA and even went further to declare the act a "sin".

Either way, it's obvious that March 14 are taking some action. But these are all temporary measures (emboldened UNIFIL,...) that cannot establish any stability. My worry is that how effective will these measures be, given that the syrian regime is still in power and Iran is turning more radical than ever. I maintain that the solution is with the western nations actively seeking to overthrow Assad.

[Jamal]

Last year, Future tried to market the dissenting Shia and went with a guy by the name of Sayyed Ibrahim El Amin. It didn't go very well since Sayyed Ibrahim was a firecracker and almost got in a fist fight with Zahi Wehbe on live tv. This year it's Sayyed Ali El Amin who is an Honor Graduate of the Al Gore school of charisma. So let's not fool ourselves on what this Ali El Amin Character is. He's just a black turban for hire whose wife is probably Pro-Nasrallah.

There isn't a "Lebanon Project." There are actually 2. The "free, sovereign, strong militarily,not so independent, economically questionable" Lebanon Project. The "UN,World bank, Weak militarily, not so independent, economically stable but corruption rich" Lebanon Project.

So either way, "Lebanon" is still a long shot.

[Vox P]

I personnally had nothing against Tony Blair's visit, but it was really unnecessary as it increased the sectarian tensions on for so little in return.

[Vox P]

As Doha pointed out on lebanese bloggers, Nasrallah considers that this visit is an insult to the Shia community feelings. He may be right or he may be wrong.
But one year ago he offered an assault riffle to psychopath Rustom Ghazale in front of journalists. He did not care about the feelings of the people who were harmed by the Syrian mukhabarat then.

[bad vilbel]

Indeed, Vox P. I don't understand why we're supposed to coddle Nasrallah's feelings or that of "the shia" he speaks for (supposedly).

This guy repeatedly insults the Lebanese State and government. He openly pledges his allegiance to a foreign capital. He takes the people to war, without consulting their feelings. And now he has his feelings hurt? Poor fuckin baby....

[Abu Kais]

ya habibi ya jamal--

I have no doubt in my mind that the "Lebanon project" is still fiction. But so are the two "projects" you listed, which seem to suggest that the Hizbullah camp wants a strong country, when they don't-- they want a strong militia in control of a weak country with a weak economy. Nothing suggests otherwise, despite what we might think of the other camp. Hariri's project was based on the false premise that economic prosperity can be sustainable in an unstable environment. It would appear that the current project, if one can call it that, is "free, sovereign, strong enough militarily, and economically stable." At least that's what we're being told, which is definitely not what Hizbullah is working towards, whether you believe March 14 or not.

As for charisma being a prerequisite, who is judging? I personally think Nasrallah is the devil incarnate-- I would take an Al Gore type any day over that arrogant liar. I won't subject muftis to personality tests-- I don't really care about any of them-- but I don't think we should let a religious man's apparently faulty personality get in the way of stopping the invasion of the anti-christs.

[Ghassan Karam]

Abu Kais,
When I read the original Arabic yesterday I started to translate it but then I knew that you would be doing this and so I went back to my studies. I am glad I was right in betting that you would undertake this task.
I would like to pose a question to you and any other reader who might be knowlegable about it: What proportion of the Lebanese Shiites are really aware of the difference between Najjaf and Qom, especiallt the ones uner thirty five? I have a feeling that not many of the young care about the Najjaf kind of doctrine and that if I am write then Sistani and Ali Al amin like Imama will have a very tough time in opposing those that were brought up on the Wilait Al Faqeeh ideas? I guess I am asking if there is any meaningful chance that opponents of the Wilaiat Al Faqeeh might be able to form a strong group to oppose the Khomeini doctrine?

[R]

As a response to some of BV and Ghassan's comments, here is what I think. We should not be surprised that there are "dissenting" Shia voices that are starting to speak up. This is a direct consequence of the Syrian exit from Lebanon. These guys now can talk more freely, the last war just gives us a reason to actually listen to them.
Another thing, is that the difference between Qom and Najaf was always there and Lebanese Shias are well aware of it. The only thing was that under Saddam, the Iraqi type non-wilayet ilfaqih brand of Shiism was supressed, while the Iranian type Khumeiniesm was unchecked. We are bound to see more of the former.
I mean if you think about from a strategic point of view, HA's power and popularity has nowhere to go but down. On the one hand you have the lack of a Syrian sponsor to silence dissent for them (its not quite the same when you do it yourself). And on the other, you have another brand of Shiism, one that competes with theirs, that is slowly recovering, but recovering nonetheless. On the long run, they can't win.

Which is worrying... coz i am sure that they are aware of such things and things don't seem to point to them accepting a reduced role... I worry about more turmoil, stemming from their desperation.

[fubar]

Pardon the interruption of this thread while I vent on the French one more time.

Paris (ME News) - The commander of UN troops in southern Lebanon has accused the Lebanese government of a lack of cooperation as new international forces arrive, French media reported Thursday.

French Commander Alain Pellegrini said a number of new contingents of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) had not been provided with adequate living quarters by Beirut, in an interview with French newspaper La Croix, to be published in its Friday edition.

Pellegrini said he had expected better help from the Lebanese government, given that UN troops were in southern Lebanon on Beirut's request.

About 1,500 new troops have so far arrived in southern Lebanon to complement the 2,000 UN troops already there. The UN Security Council mandated a 15,000-strong force to monitor a ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon-based militant group Hezbollah.

**********

Inadequate living quarters = lack of cooperation? It's a friggin war zone. Didn't you guys think to bring tents? Pardon me, but I'm thinking there are just a few people without adequate living quarters in southern Lebanon right now that were in line before you!

Damn, Lebanon, you better get right on those living quarters or the French might pack up and go home.

[Amir from Tel Aviv]

About Iran and Wilayet al-Faqih.

Wrongly, we tend to look at Iran as it is a monolithic society, that wants by all means to spread the Shia. Is it?

Shimon Peres (long live) says truly, that if one draws a median line regarding the age of the Iranians, 50% of them are under the age of 28.
So we can say with certainty that around 50% of Iranians were born after the '79 revolution.
Do they regard it still as 'their' revolution? or maybe more likely, they want to promote their own counter-revolution?
Reading Iranian blogs (assuming blog writing is not for the elderly...) there's an impression that Wilayet al-Faqih is under CHAPTER 11 of bankruptcy protection.

Lebanese case is different. Leb. Shias until not long ago serving as garbage workers, and house maids for the Leb. Christians and Leb. Sunnies, still hold their 'smaller revolution', and regard it as fragile and far from being final and complete.
That is why Leb. Shias are more dangerous than Iranian Shias (regarding Lebanon).

They still feel that they have to protect their national sectarian achievements with arms; and it is understandable.

At the moment, it seems like the Lebanese concept of Wilayet al-Faqih is stronger and more rooted than the Iranian one, that had reached it's pick, and is in decline.
.

[Maha]

This kind of dissent voices need to be heard more often. I doubt Al Jazeera or Al Manar would be eager to broadcast anything that resembles the truth, namely that not all of Shiias are under Hezbollah's hegemony.

I have not been too sure that people such as these clerics dare to speak against Hezbollah, but its good they exist. Any idea how large is the Shiia community in Lebanon, and how many of them share a different view than Hezb? I know there has not been any national census in the last two or three decades. One more thing, presumably not all Shiias agree with this pro-Iranian, pro-Khomeini Islamic trend, but do they want to have an Islamic Lebanon? I'm just thinking that there may various nuances within the Shiias.

[Jeha]

I fear that, in the long run, Hassan is right; an attack in Syria may already be in the works. The key is in how much real blood the Europeans are willing to pay.

This time, they may be willing to pay it; not for our sake, but for oil...

There is a lot of oil investment data that suggests that the Tapline and IPC will have to go through over the next 2-3 years, as a backup for the straits of Hormuz. The Suez and SUMED pipeline are already at full capacity.

Even the Eilat-Ashkelon-Ashdod line is being used to transport Arab oil to Europe.

All those roundabout ways add costs; a line through Zahrania or Haifa, or both, would be far cheaper. The current Alawi regime, and Hezbollah, both stand in the way.

Unfortunately, the Lebanese government is far too weak, its politicains far too "small minded" to matter; the country needs an overhaul, but small time warlords stand in the way. I do not mean only Aoun and Nasrallah; we owe the current frozen situation to Joumblat's need for MP's, and Saad's pushing Ghattas Khoury for the Presidency.

All "small time" people who are ruling over us. In the mean time, the big boys are setting up... Let us hope Bashar remains as stubborn as he father was shrewd; so far, he has proven to be Lebanon's "best hope"...

[fubar]

(Naharet) Lebanon's senior most Shiite cleric on Friday denounced Pope Benedict XVI's recent remarks about Muslim holy war, and demanded the pope personally apologize for insulting Islam.
"We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology -- not through his officials -- to Muslims for this false reading (of Islam)," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah told worshippers in his Friday prayers sermon.
Fadlallah's words were some of the strongest yet in response to the pontiff's remarks on Islam's prophet Mohammed and holy war, during a speech this week in Germany, which angered many in the Muslim world.
"We call on the pope to carry out a scientific and fastidious reading of Islam. We do not want him to succumb to the propaganda of the enemy led by Judaism and imperialism against Islam," Fadlallah said.
Other Islamic leaders have demanded an apology from the pope, over remarks in which he quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian, on the truths of Christianity and Islam.
"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said.
"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,"' Benedict quoted the emperor as saying.
On Thursday, the Vatican said the pope had not intended to offend Muslim sensibilities with the remarks.
But the comments continued to reverberate Friday.
Fadlallah said he condemns "and protests in the strongest terms" the pope's comments, "particularly his quoting without any occasion of the words of the emperor in which he insults Prophet Mohammed."
Premier Fouad Saniora instructed Lebanon's ambassador to the Vatican, Naji Abi Assi, to visit the Vatican Foreign Ministry to seek clarifications on the pontiff's remarks, a Lebanese government official said Friday.
In Syria, the grand mufti, the country's top Sunni religious authority, sent a letter to the pope saying he feared the pontiff's comments on Islam would worsen interfaith relations.
Sheikh Ahmed Badereddine Hassoun, a moderate cleric, said the comments "raise intellectual, cultural and religious problems between followers of religious faiths."
The letter, addressed to the pope and delivered to the Vatican embassy in Damascus, avoided sharp criticism however, reflecting tight control by Syria's secular regime.
"We expect that what has been attributed to your holiness is not true and hope we can all work together on spreading divine values that call for harmony, accord and cooperation," Hassoun wrote.(AP)

// T minus 4 in the countdown to the fatwa...

[Debbie]

Please read Amir Taheri in:
http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=6393

[Jeha]

Thanks for the suggestion Debbie. This was a very insightful analysis.

But it misses a key element. I would suggest that President Assad's opposing to the US has more nuanced reasons. Syria can neither reform nor go to outright war.

If they reform, the Alawis risk losing power; such is the legacy of Hama.

If they start a war with Israel, they risk losing; such is the weakness of their army and their economy. They have already cowed in front of Turkey on the issue of Hatay.

The best option for the Syrian regime, as it is, is to maintain the status quo. As long as they are not willing to share power, they cannot live with anything but the status quo.

For this reason, "waiting Bush out" is the only logical alternative for them.

[Dan]

I have read several web sites to get an understanding of what the problem is between the West and the muslim nations, and I think I understand now. The muslim nations are incapable of following thier own ideas, beliefs, and feelings. They must always listen to the clerics. When will the muslim nations stand for what they believe and not what is drilled into them by the clergy. The clerics do not have the ultimate answers, stand question what you are told, be an individual who asks why. Quit being sheep!

[Shunkleash]

THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!

I see that men with COJONES have not yet arrived to speak for the lebanese people. We are left to wait and see what two old religious men who may or may not have need for cojones(Sfeir and Al Amin) say. Alas, all is not lost...YET!

First, I would like to say that it feels like a cool summer wind (not to be mistaken for the stale air of flatulence whenever you hear a politician speak) when you hear someone in lebanon actually SPEAKING the truth FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE as opposed to whispering it in a closet. I share the view that the Mufti's remarks are evidnce that there is a weakening in the ranks of the haters at hizbteezee. This is good news! As I have posted before; the Shia need to feel a sense of belonging and they need to be led away from the marginalising and dehumanising politics of the dogs Berri and Nasrallah. Lest they end up like the palestinians(perpetual victims just like arafat wanted). While I do not advocate the intermingling of religion and politics at the least this muftis remarks may spur someone or a group of "someones" from the shia secular class to come forward to be a reasoned voice for the Shia. To be of any use however the rest of the lebanese political class (as shallow and deceitful as they are) need to come forward and embrace this man wholly and without reservation. When you begin to marginalise pissants like Nasrallah and Berri they will make rash(and probably violent) decisions...but you know what...in my view they are going to do it anyway so why not put them into a position where if they do take such actions it will lift the veil revealing their true colours. I think at that point they will be politically and economically (if not physicallay)dead.

Even though all of this sounds pleasant enough the long term goal is for people to stop thinking of themselves as Shia or Sunni or Christian etc but rather as LEBANESE...when that happens the true state is born....and believe me I believe that the true state lies in slumber not in death. The youth of this country still have a voice and it will shortly be raised.

As regards the issue of the comments of the Pope, and since it is the hot topic of the day I must give my two cents...

To all of my muslim brothers out there who are hopping on the "APOLOGISE NOW" bandwagon...I say take a breath and ask yourselves one question - how come not one of these muslim immams and FM's etc has yet to reject the argument/allegation that islam was spread by the sword!?!?!....instead they call a man who rejects the use violence in the name of religion HITLER!!! and then state because islam is peaceful if you critisize it and don't apologise there will be violence!!

I wonder, as should you...is there not the "verse of the sword"? And wasn't the learned persian man who was speaking with the Byzantine Emperor not there making a demand of the emperor to convert to islam or face the consequences? Does anyone know what happened next? The SACK of constantinople and the SLAUGHTER and RAPE of her citizens and the destructive CONVERSION of all of her great churches to Mosques. By the way the crusade talk is all garbage. Firstly, by the fall of Constantinople the crusades were over. More importantly however, is that the Crusades started almost 350 years after Mohamed and were a direct reponse and a DEFENSIVE WAR against the aggression and entrance of ISLAM into CHRISTIAN LANDS. If you do not believe me look at the facts on the ground. Simply read the Histories of Egypt, Syria, Iran, Turkey, Lebanon/"palestine", the area what is now Afghanistan/ Pakistan the Hindu "KUSH" etc.

Suffice it to say, from what is going on in the world today in the name of islam (death destruction misery) THE POPE IS RIGHT and until proven otherwise SUCK SALT...NO APOLOGY FOR YOU!!!!

AYESH LUBNAN!!!!

[Debbie]

From The Daily Telegraph (London):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/13/wleb13.xml

Lebanese aid 'only reaching political supporters'

By Rania Abouzeid in Taibe

(Filed: 13/09/2006)

Political parties in war-ravaged Southern Lebanon are distributing aid to their supporters but withholding assistance from villagers they do not consider as political allies.

In the battle-scarred town of Taibe, three kilometres from the Israeli-Lebanese border, locals complain that supporters of Amal and the Communist Party are being favoured.

“Some people get a lot of aid and some people get nothing,” said Majid Rislan, 44, as he filled water bottles from a tank near his bombed house.

Mr Rislan lost his home during the 34-day war with Israel and is now living with 25 members of his extended family. He has also yet to see any compensation money.

“My problem is that I’m not affiliated with anyone,” he said. “You need to be part of a group to get anything.” Most of the emergency aid in Taibe comes from NGOs, both local and international, and is handed over to the council, which then distributes it.

Abbas Diab, a local council member, denied that the parties were politicizing aid distribution.

“In Taibe, it’s not the party that distributes,” he said. “The aid comes to the council and we distribute it. No one is allowed to distribute aid without council approval.”

The United Nations is aware of complaints throughout the south, the group’s spokesman in Lebanon said, but is working through the local councils because they were "free and fairly elected."

"But I would not be shocked if some people were excluded because they belonged to one party or another," Khaled Mansour said.

Mr Rislan insists that Hizbollah, which works with its allies in local authorities across much of the South, is not guilty of political motivation in its distribution of aid. The group, which has a long-held reputation among locals for honesty, is the most reliable distributor of aid in the region.

Where the Lebanese government has so far failed to follow through on a $33,000 compensation pledge for families whose homes have been destroyed, Hizbollah has been handing out wads of cash just a few days after a UN-brokered Aug. 14 cease-fire.

[George]

The Pope

Await a fatwa to kill the Pope. Like the one against Salman Rushdie.
In the meantime the Palestinians, gentle professional victims havethrown a grenade into a church in Gaza.
Ismail Haniyeh of the Hamas governmewnt rushed to condemn the Pope, while waiting for donations fron Christian countries.

Le Premier ministre palestinien condamne les propos du pape sur l'islam
GAZA - Le Premier ministre palestinien issu du mouvement islamiste Hamas, Ismaïl Haniyeh, a condamné vendredi les propos du pape Benoît XVI sur l'islam et l'a appelé à "cesser de porter atteinte" à cette religion.

"Au nom du peuple palestinien, nous condamnons les propos du pape sur l'islam. Ces propos vont à l'encontre de la vérité et touchent l'essence de notre foi", a déclaré à la presse M. Haniyeh après avoir assisté à la prière du vendredi dans une mosquée de Gaza.

"Le pape doit réviser ses déclarations et cesser de porter atteinte à l'islam qui est la religion de plus de 1,5 milliard personnes dans le monde", a-t-il ajouté.

En visite en Allemagne mardi, le pape a implicitement établi un lien entre islam et violence, déclenchant de multiples réactions de condamnation dans le monde musulman.

(©AFP / 15 septembre 2006 13h57)

Gaza : grenade contre une église

Une grenade a été lancée contre la plus ancienne église de Gaza sans faire de victime.

Ce qui confirme que le Pape a raison :

"Ce que le pape a à cœur est un clair et radical refus de la motivation religieuse de la violence".
"Il y a actuellement dans le monde musulman un problème de la violence au nom de la religion".

Et puis tant qu'on parle de violence, citons le recteur (UOIF) de la mosquée de Lille, Amar Lasfar :

"Cette déclaration, je ne la comprends pas. C'est une déclaration de guerre en quelque sorte pour l'islam et le monde musulman (...) sûrement aujourd'hui (lors de la prière du vendredi, ndlr) tous les prêcheurs vont en parler dans les mosquées et faire part de leur indignation".

Et il faudrait croire que l'islam appelle au dialogue...

[George]

They do what they do best:
Burning the photos of the Pope:

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/ill/2006/09/15/h_9_ill_813582_pape_inde.jpg

[fubar]

(AP excerpt)

"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," [Pakistani]Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

???????????????????????

[bad vilbel]

I'm so tired of the "My religion is better than yours." arguments. I wish they'd all hurry up and go to Heaven (or Hell) already.

The hypocrisy of these kinds of arguments is beyond ridiculous.

[Battal Agha]

The world is gone mad - Now unless everyone converts to Islam, there will be violence - This is the Peaceful way of Islamization

[another someone]

fubar I think he means don't poke the bear...

As you know it only takes a fart to set them on fire.

[another someone]

replace he with she...

[e]

Fubar,
I almost choked when I read your posting. Please give people a warning. My side still hurts.
e

[Ghassan Karam]

Fubar/ e,
The statement by Tasnim Aslam has been used by the press over and over again without even a hint about how ludicrous and ironic it is. I am going to try and remember that quote. It will come in handy at times!!!

[fubar]

Muslims rant, protest, and burn the Pope in effigy while carrying signs written in English.

Meanwhile, US DOW soars to near all time high - 11,560.77

Coincidence or proof of Zionist/Imperialist Conspiracy? Hmmmm.... tough call.

[George]

{Alexis de Tocqueville}

Quote:
« … J’ai beaucoup étudié le Coran à cause surtout de notre position vis-à-vis des populations musulmanes en Algérie et dans tout l’Orient. Je vous avoue que je suis sorti de cette étude avec la conviction qu’il y avait eu dans le monde, à tout prendre, peu de religions aussi funestes aux hommes que celle de Mahomet. Elle est, à mon sens, la principale cause de la décadence aujourd’hui si visible du monde musulman et quoique moins absurde que le polythéisme antique, ses tendances sociales et politiques étant, à mon avis, infiniment plus à redouter, je la regarde relativement au paganisme lui-même comme une décadence plutôt que comme un progrès…»
__________

«L'islam, c'est la polygamie, la séquestration des femmes, l'absence de toute vie publique, un gouvernement tyrannique et ombrageux qui force de cacher sa vie et rejette toutes les affections du coeur du côté de l'intérieur de la famille»

{{Bertrand Russel}}

Quote:
« Le bolchevisme combine les caractéristiques de la révolution française avec celles de la montée en puissance de l'Islam. Marx a enseigné que le communisme était fatalement prédestiné à apparaître ; ceci produit un état d'esprit qui n’est pas très différent de celui des premiers successeurs de Mahomet. D’entre les religions, le bolchevisme doit être comparé avec le Mahométisme plutôt qu'avec le Christianisme ou le Bouddhisme. Le Christianisme et le Bouddhisme sont avant tout des religions personnelles, avec des doctrines mystiques et un amour contemplatif. Le Mahométisme et le bolchevisme sont concrets, sociaux, dénués de spiritualité et intéressés à étendre leur domination sur ce monde. »

* NdT : B. Russel était mathématicien, philosophe et pacifiste britannique ; il reçut le prix Nobel de littérature en 1950 pour l'ensemble de son œuvre, en particulier pour son engagement d’humaniste et de libre penseur.

{{Ibn Warraq}}

Quote:
« La théorie et la pratique du Djihad n'ont pas été inventées par le Pentagone. (…) Elles ont été extraites du Coran, des hadiths et de la tradition islamique. La gauche occidentale, et plus particulièrement les humanistes, ont du mal à le croire. (…) La quantité de personnes qui ont écrit sur les évènements du 11 septembre sans mentionner une seule fois l’Islam est extraordinaire. Nous devons prendre au sérieux ce que disent les islamistes si nous voulons comprendre leur dessein, à savoir que c'est le devoir divin de tous les musulmans que de combattre, au sens littéral, jusqu’à ce que la loi des hommes soit remplacée par la loi de Dieu, la charia, et que la loi islamique ait conquis le monde entier. (…) Pour chaque texte que les musulmans libéraux produisent, les mollahs présentent des douzaines de contre-exemples beaucoup mieux légitimés aux niveaux exégétique, philosophique et historique. »

Et puis il y a aussi de grands classiques comme:

{{Mustapha Kémal Atatürk}}

Quote:
"Depuis plus de 500 ans, les règles et les théories d'un vieux cheikh arabe, et les interprétations abusives de générations de prêtres crasseux et ignares ont fixé, en Turquie, tous les détails de la loi civile et criminelle. Elles ont réglé la forme de la constitution, les moindres faits et gestes de la vie de chaque citoyen, sa nourriture, ses heures de veille et de sommeil, la coupe de ses vêtements, ce qu'il apprend à l'école, ses coutumes, ses habitudes et jusqu'à ses pensées les plus intimes. L'islam, cette théologie absurde d'un bédouin immoral, est un cadavre putréfié qui empoisonne nos vies."

{{Gustave Flaubert}}

Quote:
"Sans doute par l'effet de mon vieux sang normand, depuis la guerre d'Orient, je suis indigné contre l'Angleterre, indigné à en devenir Prussien ! Car enfin, que veut-elle ? Qui l'attaque ? Cette prétention de défendre l'Islamisme (qui est en soi une monstruosité) m'exaspère. Je demande, au nom de l'humanité, à ce qu'on broie la Pierre-Noire, pour en jeter les cendres au vent, à ce qu'on détruise La Mecque, et que l'on souille la tombe de Mahomet. Ce serait le moyen de démoraliser le Fanatisme."

(Rien que pour ça, je serais prête à relire la Bovary!

Winston Churchill

Quote:
"Combien redoutables sont les malédictions que la religion mahométane fait peser sur ses dévots! A côté de la frénésie fanatique, aussi dangereuse chez un homme que l’hydrophobie chez un chien, il y a cette effrayante apathie fataliste. Ses effets sont manifestes dans de nombreux pays. Une imprévoyance coutumière, une agriculture négligente, des méthodes de commerce léthargiques, une insécurité de la propriété existent partout où les fidèles du Prophète gouvernent ou vivent. Une sensualité avilie ôte à cette vie ses grâces et ses raffinements, et à la suivante sa dignité et son caractère sacré. Le fait que dans la loi mahométane toute femme doit être propriété absolue d’un homme (que ce soit en tant qu’enfant, qu’épouse ou que concubine) ne peut que retarder la disparition finale de l’esclavage jusqu’à l’époque où l’Islam aura cessé d’être un grand pouvoir parmi les hommes.

Les individus musulmans peuvent montrer de splendides qualités. Des milliers d’entre eux deviennent de courageux et loyaux soldats de la Reine ; tous savent comment mourir ; mais l’influence de cette religion paralyse le développement social de ses fidèles. Il n’existe pas de plus puissante force rétrograde dans le monde. Loin d’être moribonde, la religion mahométane est une foi militante et prosélyte. Elle s’est déjà étendue à travers l’Afrique Centrale, dressant à chaque étape des guerriers sans peur ; et si la Chrétienté n’était protégée par les bras vigoureux de la Science, la civilisation de l’Europe moderne pourrait tomber, comme tomba celle de la Rome antique."

(Traduction de mon cru)

Et enfin, pour plaire à tout le monde (avec humour):

{{Victor Hugo}}

Quote:
"Enfer chrétien, du feu. Enfer païen, du feu. Enfer mahométan, du feu.
Enfer hindou, des flammes. A en croire les religions, Dieu est né rôtisseur."

{{André Malraux sur l'Islam:}}

"C’est le grand phénomène de notre époque que la violence de la poussée islamique. Sous-estimée par la plupart de nos contemporains, cette montée de l’islam est analogiquement comparable aux débuts du communisme du temps de Lénine. Les conséquences de ce phénomène sont encore imprévisibles. A l’origine de la révolution marxiste, on croyait pouvoir endiguer le courant par des solutions partielles. Ni le christianisme, ni les organisations patronales ou ouvrières n’ont trouvé la réponse. De même aujourd’hui, le monde occidental ne semble guère préparé à affronter le problème de l’islam. En théorie, la solution paraît d’ailleurs extrêmement difficile. Peut-être serait-elle possible en pratique si, pour nous borner à l’aspect français de la question, celle-ci était pensée et appliquée par un véritable homme d’Etat. Les données actuelles du problème portent à croire que des formes variées de dictature musulmane vont s’établir successivement à travers le monde arabe. Quand je dis “musulmane”, je pense moins aux structures religieuses qu’aux structures temporelles découlant de la doctrine de Mahomet. Dès maintenant, le sultan du Maroc est dépassé et Bourguiba ne conservera le pouvoir qu’en devenant une sorte de dictateur. Peut-être des solutions partielles auraient-elles suffi à endiguer le courant de l’islam, si elles avaient été appliquées à temps… Actuellement, il est trop tard ! Les “misérables” ont d’ailleurs peu à perdre. Ils préféreront conserver leur misère à l’intérieur d’une communauté musulmane. Leur sort sans doute restera inchangé. Nous avons d’eux une conception trop occidentale. Aux bienfaits que nous prétendons pouvoir leur apporter, ils préféreront l’avenir de leur race. L’Afrique noire ne restera pas longtemps insensible à ce processus. Tout ce que nous pouvons faire, c’est prendre conscience de la gravité du phénomène et tenter d’en retarder l’évolution".

André Malraux, le 3 juin 1956

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

"Le problème, c'est le prophète et le Coran (...) Il y a des graines de fascisme dans l'Islam."

Henri Pirenne

"Les Arabes sont exaltés par l'Islam. C'est cela et cela seul qui les rend inassimilables."

(Henri Pirenne, Mahomet et Charlemagne, publié en 1936)

Grand historien belge, est décédé en 1935.

{{Anne-Marie Delcambre}}

L'INTEGRISME N'EST PAS LA MALADIE DE L' ISLAM. IL EST L' INTEGRALITE DE L' ISLAM.

(Anne-Marie Delcambre, L' Islam des Interdits, page 11, Desclée de Brouwer, Paris 2003)

[Delbarre]

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand des necrophiliaques Arabes ont mutilés les corps de 4 Américains près de Fallujah, ont marchaient sur leurs crânes brûlés, et en suite a accrochée leur corps brûlés sur un pont ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les "Palestiniens" lynche et mutilés les corps de deux soldats de réserve, pères de familles égares par erreur, a Ramallah ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand 19 musulmans ont fait sauter le World Trade Center et le Pentagone sur 9/11/01 ?
Où étaient ceux-ci "outragés" quand les musulmans continuent à abattre des Chrétiens -Soudaneses et non musulmans à Darfour et ailleurs au Soudan méridional ?

Où étaient ceux-ci "outragés" quand des musulmans quand le GIA et le FIS ont massacre 150.000 musulmans, violés leurs filles et femmes et pillés leurs biens.

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les musulmans ont fait sauter le vol 103 de Pan Am à Lockerbie ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les musulmans ont bombardé les baraques de "marines" au Liban tuant 241 Américains en 1983 ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les musulmans ont bombardé l'USS COLE ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les musulmans ont bombardé les Ambassades Américains en Afrique (En Tanzanie et au Kenya), tuant 231 personnes ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand Abu Mazen a machiné l'attaque de terreur de'"Septembre Noir" pendant les Jeux Olympiques de Munich, qui ont tuées 11 athlètes Israélien et un citoyen Américain?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand en JUILLET 18, 1994 au moins 96 personnes étaient t tuées quand une bombe éclate à un centre social juif à Buenos Aires.

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand Abu Abbas a jeté son chariot d'invalide et bondissent Leone Klinghoffer, un invalide, par dessus bord d'Achille Lauro, un navire de plaisance ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand des ameuteras"palestiniens"ont incendier un lieu sacre pour les juifs, le tombeau de Joseph ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand le Taliban a fait sauter les statues Buddhis en Afghanistan ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les souffles simultanés ont basculé deux synagogues d'Istanbul tuant au moins 15 personnes et blessant au moins140 ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" pendant le bombardement d'un des plus vieilles Synagogues de Tunisie à Djerba, tuant 14 Allemands, 5 Tunisiens et un Français.

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" pendant le bombardement simultanés des trains de Madrid en 11 Mars, 2005 ont marqué une attaque dévastatrice, dans lequel une corde des bombes puissantes a été détonée sur le banlieusard emballé. Les souffles ont tué 191 personnes. Plus de 1.500 ont été blessés, et les survivants luttent toujours pour reconstruire leurs vies?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les "Palestiniens" ont distribuer de bonbons pour célébrer la mort de 3000 Américains dans l'attaque suicide
A 9-11-01 ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" pendant que l'attaque suicide de Jemaah Islamiyah a tuées 12 personnes et a blessé 150 a l'hôtel Mariotte à Jakarta,
Indonésie ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand des attaques de bombe par des terroristes Marocaines à Casablanca ont tuées 28 personnes et ont faits plus de 100 blessés ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les bombardiers de suicide ont tué 12 personnes au Kenya à l'hôtel Paradis (Paradise Hôtel) et quand deux missiles sol- air tirées par des terroristes Musulmans ont failli d'abattre un avion de ligne Israélien avec tous ses passagers ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand presque 200 personnes étaient des tués dans une boîte de nuit de l'île indonésienne de Bali ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand 300.000 corps des citoyens Irakiens étaient trouvées dans des tombes de masse, massacré par Saddam et ses collaborateurs?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand Daniel Pearl, un journalste de Wall Street Journal à été brutalement égorge. L'acte sauvage a été documenté sur vidéo avec la participation d'un Musulman citoyen britannique ?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand deux musulmans britanniques
(Nées en Angleterre) sont allées se faire exploser dans une boîte, Mike's Place, à Tel Aviv tuant 3 et en blessant 50?

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand en 1997, quand les militants islamiques ont tué 58 touristes et quatre Egyptiens dans Luxour

Où étaient ceux-ci les musulmans "outragés" quand les hôtels a Taba (Bombardements de Taba et de Ras Shitan, qui ont détruit une aile du Taba Hilton Hôtel et ont tué 34 personnes et ont blessé plus de 100 autres.)A Sharm El Cheikh. Le nombre officiel des morts dans les bombardements 64, mais les fonctionnaires d'hôpital déclarait que le chiffre pourrait être aussi élevé que 88. La plupart des accidentes étaient des Egyptiens. 17 Étrangers ont été tués, la plupart d'entre eux Européens. Un Américain était parmi les morts.

Où était leur indignation ?

[Domino]

L'Islam politique est champion du monde pour réclamer ce qu'il refuse aux autres.

Une religion de paix ? C'est la culture la plus malade qu'existe sur la face de la terre. Le fait qu'elle est soutenue par des gauchistes séculaires en Europe et Amérique indique la maladie terminale de ceux que mène une croisade au nom "de justice social." Les racines de cette maladie Musulmane sont une haine pour l'Occident pour le crime d'être une réussite, démocratique et tolérante. Et au coeur de cette maladie est l'haine de soi. Haine de soi pour les 1.000 ans d'échec de la culture musulmane\ arabe. Le Danemark un pays pacifique, tolérant de 4 millions d'habitants- 162 musulmans violentes arrêtés. Danemark doit regretter le droit d'asile si facilement accordé par "les idiots utiles"
Le monde islamique nous continue montrer comment peu de tolérance ils ont pour n'importe quoi. Ils aiment tuer, détruire, et ils aiment encourager les massacres, certains même élèvent leurs enfants dans cet esprit. Mais par ailleurs Dieu protége n'importe qui ose offenser ces âmes délicates et leurs susceptibilités sensibles.....

Lissez le Rapport de l’ONU sur l’état de développement dans les pays Arabes. Regardez, ou et la Corée le Vietnam, le Hong Kong le Taiwan, La Chine ou sont les états Arabes et musulmanes ? Les Etats arabes n’ont fait que régresser. En fait, le sort des masses arabes est pire qu’il ne l’était lorsqu’elles se trouvaient sous domination anglaise ou française. Combien de prix Nobel l’Islam a-t-il produits ? Combien de découvertes pouvant améliorer le sort de l’humanité lui devons-nous ? Pratiquement zéro ! Combien d’Einstein, de Freud, de Salk, de Rubinstein ? Zéro ! Après avoir été une civilisation brillante, qui a donné au monde l’algèbre et le concept du zéro, l’Islam vous a plongés dans le fanatisme, l’illettrisme, la Pauvreté et la corruption, et vous voudriez entraîner le monde dans cet abîme.

[Freedom N0w]

He is the Al-Sistani of Lebanon.

Bless his heart!!!!!!!!

[Mohammed Haidar]

Al-Amin is a Puppet. Hezballah knows that only through Islam will humankind achieve happiness and prosperity and that when there is innocent people(eg. Palestinians) in need it is a duty of ours to stand up and protect such people. I know that theres certain people that study Islam and try get to a higher level so he can misguide and play with people's minds.

[Jeha]

Nice;

Dude, the end will never justify the means; this is an argument used and reused by all dictators throughout history. I can assure you Gengis Khan claimed he was a peace maker, whose only goal was to help "humankind achieve happiness and prosperity".

In any case, God does not need you to fight for him, otherwise, he would have made sure His enemies would not even have existed.

And while you are correct in stating that it is "a duty of ours to stand up and protect such people". Our people First. You know, just like the ones who got killed a few days ago? Or like those who are still prisoners in Syrian jails? ... That is, unless you do not count them among Hassan's "ashraf el nass"...