And the victory goes to...

The Lebanese government unanimously adopted UN resolution 1701 today. Although the support vote was unanimous, HA ministers had reservations on some of the details which have not been disclosed yet. I will, however, jump the gun and predict these reservations in the following points:

• Complete evacuation of the area south of the Litani of HA weapons
• Monitoring air, sea, and land ports for arms smuggling
• No mention of the Shebaa farms
• No call for a ceasefire
• Recall of UN resolution 1559

Information Minister Ghazi Aridi, announced after the cabinet meeting that the UN resolution 1701 was a resounding victory for the diplomacy undertaken by the Lebanese government, an opinion shared by Saniora a few hours earlier. Aridi went further to announce that HA has agreed to respect the full implementation of the resolution, including the weapons free zone south of the Litani. However, a low level HA official declared during an interview on Al-Arabiya that it is unlikely that they (HA) will "give Israel what it could not achieve through war".

Prior to the cabinet meeting, Nasrallah came out of his cave again to claim the victory. His victory is seen from a "slightly" different perspective than that of Saniora's though. Nasrallah only saw his militia's survival on the battlefield and the casualties inflicted on the IDF as his source of pride. True as that may be, his speach was somewhat benign in a sense that he did accept resolution 1701 with reservations, acknowledged the Lebanese people's steadfastness, and committed to a ceasefire as soon as the UN declares one. His true intentions, however, emerge in a comment that some parts of the resolution are considered "an interference in Lebanon's internal affairs." This particular comment takes Lebanon back to pre July 12th with the difference that Saniora's government has the Lebanese army in the south, a reinforced UNIFIL, and a violent 30-day war experience which the government should use to tip the balance against HA. The following few days will show how these positions unfold.

Comments

[Ghassan Karam]

Hassan Nasrallah just does not get it does he? It is just unimaginable how much innocent blood he and Lahoud on their hands not to speak of the misery and destruction that they have wrought. How convenient for Nasrallah to claim that HA is merely reacting to the action by the IDF, as if the world has forgotten where the spark for this conflagaration came from. These shameful statements would have been easier to bear had they been only an effort at saving face but I am afraid that theobstructionism goes on and Lebanon will have to pay for this obstinancy that has never been informed by the public good. I just hope that the rest of the Lebanese government has the courage to oppose this alien project. History will be watching, do not kill the dream.

[JoseyWales]

Just heard Hezbo intends to keep their weapons north of Litani.

(2 HA ministers according to CNN)

[frencheagle-libnanews]

the main victory for lebanon is not for now.

it ll be victory if the lebanese are still unifying themselves to avoid the civil strifes that might follow the war due to the destruction of the infrastructure, the economy and the different houses.

the main actor to rebuild the houses, the villages etc... that were destroyed must be the state and no other organizations

[Ghassan Karam]

I have raised the following issue before but I believe that it desrves to be raised again? Does anyone know why is it that the Lebanese government should not show its resolve in getting its domestic house in order by cutting or at least suspending its diplomatic relationship with Iran?

Anybody who has been readibg some of my posts over the past 18 months or so knows who strong of a believer I am in the democratic process and how strong of an opponent I am for any undemocratic moves yet I can support at times unliberal moves provided they lead to liberal results. What I am saying is that maybe, just maybe, the failure of the Lebanese government to take a strong stand against HA, Iran< Damascus and the like might be inviting an uprising. There is a limit to how much decent people can be pushed. Ahmadinajad/Bashar/Nasrallah have no right under any sort, form or fashion to act on behalf of 4 million Lebanese and inflict on the innocent deathand mayhem. If not now when, if not against those that are attempting to steal our dreams then against whom? Where is my government, where are my representatives? I demand that they take strong action on my behalf, it is my intrinsic right to expect my government to protect my interests and not to compromise on seminal , elemental and nonnegotiable issues.

[Ghassan Karam]

Josey,
Apparently HA does not intend to lay down its arms even south of the Litani!!! Where are the Lebanese masses? Has everyone abdicated their natural rights???

[R]

Ghassan,

I totally understand and share your frustration against Iran, and like you am a strong believer in the democratic process. As such, the quasi-democratically elected representatives of the Lebanese people, our parliament and the government they support, have to take any decisions like cutting relations with Iran.

I do not consider my views represented in the parliament, nor do I consider myself a member of any popular majority, eventhough I do share many of the March 14 aspirations. I believe you share at least a part of this view.

Therefore, we have to succumb to the will of the Lebanese people and make sure that any moves that we support or advocate do not inflame the public negatively, otherwise we risk losing legitimacy when we make reasonable demands in the future.

I am not saying that what you are calling for is unjustified, only unfeasible and risky and probably unpopular.

[e]

Unless the Lebanese convince investors that there won't be another war, how will Lebanon recover?
If HA is not disarmed at least south of the Litani the expectation would be that there will be another war in 2-3 years, perhaps sooner if Israel does not feel the embargo is working.
e

[Hmmm]

The only thing to be 'laid down' in the coming months are the young men foolish enough to wear blue helmets in Lebanon. Many mothers will weep in the days to come.

How could a UN force accomplished what the brigades of Israel have not? Not through enforcement, surely. To even keep their lives they will have to turn a blind eye to the HA around them.

This whole cessation is just an opportunity for HA to rearm. Lebanon has sealed its fate. They pushed the world hard, not for treatment of the cancer that eats them, but only for pain medicine. Now the cancer will consume them.

Now the world can say "they asked for blue helmets and that is what we gave." Do not bother us again with your childishness. Lebanon has made its decision. Any adult continuing to reside in that land is a fool or criminal. And now all the world knows, and is no longer responsible.

The only mystery left is whether her new masters will rule from Syria or Iran. And even that will but flavor the humiliation.

Peace be to Lebanon.

ps- I think this is the new definition of 'Arab Dignity'; they rather lick the boots of Persians than suffer the demand of being a good neighbor to Jews. Lick well my Lebanese friends. suckers.

[someone]

And the victory goes to Lebanon,finnaly won the war of freedom.

Nor US or "israel" has reached their objectives.US wanted a pro-american base in Lebanon,in order to fight Iran or Syria strategically,but Lebanon refused that and "resisted" this action.

"israel" wanted to regain its power by a millitary show in Lebanon,in adition with masacres and war crimes,so that lebaneses will be afraid and surrender ,but this didnt happen either.

Lebanon now ,is free ,and belongs to the arab world ,and still be in war with "israel" no peace with war criminals.

[e]

Someone,
If your thinking prevails in Lebanon, it will very soon become like Gaza.
How about you build Lebanon and the Israelis build Israel and nobody bothers the other?
e

[Andrea Baucero]

Dear Ghassan, I'm not satisfied either with the outcome of the war, in the end Hezbollah has not been totally defeated, and with the resolution it will surely find a lot of room to start rearming north of the Litani, and probably south too. But I think that the process of turning Lebanon into a fully sovereign state and a fully functional democracy is a long one, an incremental one, rather than a quick and "revolutionary" one. We have to look at the positive outcomes of the war: Hezbollah activity is now under the eyes of the whole world, this means that, even if it retains its weapons, it will not be able in the future to move freely at the border, it will not be able to harass Israel and, most of all, it will not be able to parade weapons as it used to do in military shows in Beirut. I think that most of Hezbollah's military power came from showing that it has weapons, and in using them as a deterrence against Israel. Now both things have ceased. Hezbollah has always refused to accept the Lebanese army in the south, and now it's forced to accept that very thing. Lebanese army is not a deterrent for Hezbollah activity, but at least it's a strong sign that the state is there, which was not before. Now much depends on how the political stage in Lebanon is going to evolve in the next few months. Hezbollah will surely try to reassert its power and turn things exactly as they were before, and it's totally up to the 14th march movement to stop it, to show that the Lebanese are tired of adventures and wars, that Lebanon wants to live the life of a normal state. The murder of Hariri resulted in Syria giving up its military presence in Lebanon, will this war result in Hezbollah having to give up its military wing? Now you have an excellent chance to move another few inches forward, Lebanon will not be a normal country this year, next year, or in 2008, but you can move it forward a little bit, if your politicians are steadfast and show a bit more courage than they have in the past. I think that now that the war is over, and that you don't have to show solidarity anymore in the face of an external threat, a few harsh declarations by Jumblatt, Hariri and Seniora against Hezbollah would do a lot, as would a few demonstrations for peace and against future adventures. Let's wait and see, the important thing now is for the state to be very present in your southern regions, you can't afford to let Hezbollah do all the reconstruction in those parts of your country. Good luck, now you're at a crossroad.

[Hassan]

Ghassan,
About the Amazon suggestion, count me in for sure.

[Ghassan Karam]

Andrea,
We have been at that proverbial fork in the road so many times and we have always gone down the wrong path:-) Who knows maybe this time it will be different.
Andrea, your post deserves a longer and more serious response but unfortunately I am preoccupied for the rest od the day. Maybe we can have a dialogue at some other time.

[Andrea Baucero]

I agree Ghassan, unfortunately I won't be writing for a couple of weeks since I'm leaving tomorrow, but I hope that when I come back we'll some interesting (meaning positive) developments to talk about. See you!

[someone]

"Someone,
If your thinking prevails in Lebanon, it will very soon become like Gaza.
How about you build Lebanon and the Israelis build Israel and nobody bothers the other?
e"

"israel" can in anytime attack Lebanon,when Lebanon cant do that ,so lebaneses dont feel safe ,and cant build their country like you said.

If you build a home ,and you "know" that some group can come in anytime and destroy it for any reason,will you build this home? you should have protection,so you feel safe,even if you have no enemy.

A solution is to strenghten the lebanese army enough ,to give the feeling of safety for lebaneses,so they "know" that what they build cant be destroyed easily like we have seen in this war,when you live in a country and you know that there is no army in this country,then you feel yourself in danger all the time.Nasrallah say that that "israel" cant attack us in anytime ,because now,it knows that there is a respond : rockets.

Now the lebanese army can go south ,it is sure now "israel" will not attack this army,because "israel" knows what will be the response,it is not like in 1982 for example,things now has changed.

Now you say but if you dont attack " israel" it will not attack you, i say if "israel" negotiate and return the occupied land and the prisoneers ,Lebanon will not have causes to attack it,same thing in Gaza.

[mac]

Someone,

The people getting their asses handed to them are Hezb. They've been killed in job lots and their fiefdom of S. Leb has been completely shattered. Now is the time for the real Lebs to jump in and finish them off. If they don't, then when Hezb gets frisky again and attacks Israel Leb infrastructure will be destroyed again, and this time probably worse.

[IMB]

Time to get rid of Hezbollah as a military power in Lebanon - After all all other militias were disarmed as per the Taef agreement. The same should be applied to Hezb and forget this nonsense called Al Moukawameh - Ah, also, we should get rid of Lahoud. Have you seen his interviews on foreign TVs? Gosh, he makes a fool of himself and everyone wonders if this Joker is really the President of Lebanon....

[someone]

"Someone,

The people getting their asses handed to them are Hezb. They've been killed in job lots and their fiefdom of S. Leb has been completely shattered. Now is the time for the real Lebs to jump in and finish them off. If they don't, then when Hezb gets frisky again and attacks Israel Leb infrastructure will be destroyed again, and this time probably worse."

Dont be nervous ,you have accept the defeat calmly.Millitants are still in the south and they can launch rockets everyday like you see.Lebanese government will send the lebanese army to stay beside them and enforce their positions ,not to do what "israel" couldnt do.

Attacking infratructure is a barbarian act ,also it is a jewich respond when they cant win the war ,they show their anger like this,by masacres, like you are showing your anger with words here,also this can be understood since the goals of olmert has not been achieved,he must be ashamed now and very nervous,and you too of course .

[dougjnn]

someone

Dont be nervous ,you have accept the defeat calmly.Millitants are still in the south and they can launch rockets everyday like you see.

If they do the bombing of Hezbollah and infrastructure will recommence.

Is that what you want?

It’s called deterrence. Bombing of infrastructure was part of what was necessary to achieve it. Capiche?

[dougjnn]

'If You Are Men:' Threats and Bluffs Inside the Lebanon Cabinet

http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/08/if_you_are_men_threats_and_blu.php

Interesting.

It actually looks like Siniora's trying harder to get Hezbollah at this early stage than I would have thought.

[bad vilbel]

I'm afraid I must agree with Ghassan here. It's time the Lebanese people start acting as a people of a single nation. And if they don't (which history has shown us, is the most likely), then we'll be having yet another war in 2-3 years, if not sooner.

It is time the non-Hezbollah supporting majority of the Lebanese people take charge of their country and say enough is enough. Anything short of that is not gonna be enough, I'm afraid.

[Hmmm]

I think Syria should just incorporate the territory. at least it would collect taxes for a place it already rules.

[someone]

"If they do the bombing of Hezbollah and infrastructure will recommence.

Is that what you want?

It’s called deterrence. Bombing of infrastructure was part of what was necessary to achieve it. Capiche?"

No one forced "israel" to accept the resolution,and stop the war that it began,it can continue the bombings,but unfortunately , there is nothing to bomb ,"israel" will appear to have a stupid army.

I dont see what olmert has achieved by bombings ,every country in the world can bomb ,and everyone knows what will happen when a bomb fall: it will explose ,then nothing more.

The launch of the rockets was just a response ,and have in mind that lebaneses dont care about infrastructures ,since nasrallah is safe and alive ,and the milishia will still be in the south, armed,and hold the two soldiers , capiche?

[charlie]

Hey Someone,

1559 and 1701 are the best thing that ever happened to support an independent Lebanese state. The choices are simple: be part of an independent nation or an isolated militia that is governed by intimidations, chaos and run by their masters in Tehran and Damascus. Now if you are willing to be part of a nation and a country you would see that supporting the implementation of these resolutions as an asset and something good , but obviously you are much more interested in living up to that empty rhetoric that HA uses to brain wash people to the point of self destruction.

Enjoy your self destruction just don’t expect the rest of us to go along with it…

[Ghassan Karam]

Who are the real Rulers of Lebanon?

In an earlier post in this thread I raised the issue of why is it that the Lebanese government does not cut its diplomatic relations with Iran.Events over the past twenty hours or so have made that question so much more relevant and less hypothetical.

It is common knowledge that the Lebanese government offered its unanimous support of UNSCresolution 1701 to stop the hostilities, deploy the Lebanese army in conjunction with an expanded UNIFIL south of the Litani and make sure that no HA fighters remain in that area. The Lebanese government has also offered that its official armed forces are to be in control all across the state. But as soon as Iran and Syria voiced their governments' reservations regarding the issue of disarming HA then all of a sudden their Lebanese agents had a change of heart and thus the whole agreement is put in jeoperdy. If anyone had anydoubts about who controls the strings of HA in both the political and military fields then these events should be sobering.

Let us declare once moreopenly and clearly, Lebanon has had to pay dearly for allowing others to fight a proxy war that detroyed its assets, killed its civilians and set it back a few decades. As a result we promise never ever to aquiese when any group attempts to promote the national interests and dellusions of non Lebanese. We will not put up anylonger with any of the brazen attempts to fight their wars or to accept their dictates. The paralysis that existed prior to July 12, 2006 will never be tolerated again. Going to war, from now on, will be motivated by the national interest and will be waged only if our legally elected representatives agree to it. We will no longer be treated as second class citizens in our country. These are difficult times , the state is in danger and its survival is paramount. That we have to take a stand and send a message that Lebanon is back in business and that we will no longer tolerate interference in our affairs by anyone. We need to get to work because we have a tough task ahead of us, the task of resurrecting a nation.

Would anyone in the government stand up for Lebanon for a change. The next few days and the next few weeks at best, should tell whether we have chosen to resurrect a state or whether we have chosen the road to perdition.

[Hassan]

Ceasefire is in effect. But check out this article by Robert Fisk, pretty gloomy:
http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2006/08/fisk_as_the_6am.php

[someone]

"Hey Someone,

1559 and 1701 are the best thing that ever happened to support an independent Lebanese state. The choices are simple: be part of an independent nation or an isolated militia that is governed by intimidations, chaos and run by their masters in Tehran and Damascus. Now if you are willing to be part of a nation and a country you would see that supporting the implementation of these resolutions as an asset and something good , but obviously you are much more interested in living up to that empty rhetoric that HA uses to brain wash people to the point of self destruction.

Enjoy your self destruction just don’t expect the rest of us to go along with it…"

Why destruction? if the millitants captured two soldiers and the world wanted an independent Lebanon like you said ,so why bombing infratructures that belong to the Lebanese state that you want free? why killing civilians since they are not millitants,and not responsible of the acts of the milishia?

If you want a independent Lebanese state then avoid its destruction ,but "israel" didnt attack the armed millitants in the south but punished the state and people ? can you explain why ?

I dont understand how you demolish a whole country and at the same time you want it developed and democratic ,and want people to love you after that?

Just in the last week "israel" went on to disarm the milishia ,and not before that.All lebaneses now knows that "israel" was destructing their country,punishing them because the milishia captured two soldiers ,when those innocent people dont have any responsibilities over the acts of the millitants,and still dont have .

[Asiason]

Someone you are an idiot. How after all of this you cannot even realize that HA bares even some margin of fault here?

Are you so blinded in your Anti-Zionism that you can no longer think or see clearly?

From the begining and until now you consistently post crap and nothing but crap spews out of your rationalizations. For a while I thought its because he is jaded or maybe confused or maybe dazed from Ha rockets firing too close to his ears.

But no you have not nor will ever allow for reason to kick in. You are chowing down on all the crap the Arab media spins to you about victory even in the face of defeat, you are the exact creation of a wastrel by-product that cannot think for itself, stand up and see for itself but that just lives on hate and persistent ability to just surmise incorrectly and instead repeat nonsense that you are spoonfed from a militant Martyrs of A-Z local chapterhouse.

Lebanon has been giving one breif respite to set right some very bad wrongs. The HA are about to cry victory while dancing on the graves of so many on both sides and you my friend are probrably one of the ones doing the dancing.

The innocents you care about are those that have your shade of skin and wear the same turban you do. You are willing to condemn till you blue in the face atrocities only that which you receive but not that those of you and your beloved HA have been responsible for.

You Mr. Someone are nothing but a cruel misfit of a man and you and so many like you are preventing the ME from being what it could be.. the center of civilization it once war.

Hold on then to your beliefs, evolution and change will not be denied. Moderates allow you and your kind to exist only for so long, it comes a time that everyone gets sick of a jihadists and their sympthizers and will love to help you on your way to all the virgins that you yearn for post haste.

God.. i mean only half of what I say but my patience is sorely tested by this gadfly that has been a waste of breathe and time.

[someone]

Asiason,

Have in mind that many and maybe the majority of people in the middle east are seeing Lebanon victorious and that "israel" has lost.

olmert said that he is responsible of this war,and that means that he is responsible for all casuealities and demolition of Lebanon.

He now understand that capturing two soldiers ,should not have been responded by a barbarian destruction of an independent state ,he should be careful next time.

olmert set goals for his war ,that he never achieved,this means defeat for him ,and nasrallah defined victory for himself,which is to sill be in south lebanon ,destruction of infrastructures means nothing more than a show of anger of olmert as a result of failure,it is understood as jewich hate by lebaneses,they know who bombed them regardless of what was the causes.

You should accept the results of "war of anger" and try to calm down after this defeat,and start to understand how original people in the middle east think and try to respect them .I will not say you are an idiot,because i dont know you, but something is sure ,olmert was an idiot to go to war,and if you think he is not then you are like him.

[Asiason]

If he did not fight when his borders are attacked and his soldiers killed and captured what kind of man would he be? Worse then a coward he would have been a promoter for this terrorism everywhere! Can you accept that?

How the hell is your logic processing through any of this?

HAMAS just did it then HA joined in should he just bargain with everyone that steals a JEW or kills a few?

Someone Lebanon is falling into that country where as Gestapo like police or thugs show up the minute anyone dares to say different from what Nasrallah likes.

Someday someone your children will come to you and say.

"Father I will go and tell them I do no agree. My friends are all doing it."

The headline the next will be twenty children with their heads decapitated and with signs nailed on their rotting corpses saying " Jew lover" or " Un-islamic heathen". This is the ideal you champion when you let the HA win!!

Put aside your disgust or hate for Israel and realize the darkest hours of your country have just started.

If you lose "this" fight , you will never again be allowed to breathe one word or think one thought that men in turbans haven't already allowed but the moment you do... your life ends is a shower of blood that spills into an alley.

We are not fighting a war about borders anymore someone.. this is a war where you are now threatened and your children forever more that you as person no longer matter.. that others will and now forever decide what you get to choose.

For your children and for the love that freedom of thought, mind and action if you let them take these from you they will not surrender it short of a civil war!

You need to rage now and rage hard and scream from the tallest tower in Lebanon and let the world know that you can and will prevent evil men from taking the only thing that you have left at the end of the day.

Your dignity.

Stand up you fool and look behind you. Your enemy was always there to begin with. Can you not see?

[someone]

Asiason,

Why you look things darker than they are ?

Egypt went to war because there was an egyptian occupied land "sinai" ,that should be returned.
Same thing for Lebanon ,and for Syria,and Palestine.
Since these lands cant go to war as Egypt did ,because they are not so strong ,then there appaired public resistance movements to free the occupied lands.Olmert and Sharon just neglected these subjects ,but Rabin did not,thats why he was killed.

When for the soldiers captured ,they were captured because there is forgotten prisoners in jails,there is no talk about judjing them nor set a date to free them,and now there is ministers and president of palestinians parliament in jails ,it is not a solution not retreat from GAZA and south Lebanon ,and forget everything ,there is rights to return.

[Asiason]

None of those issues matter right now someone!

You are in the fight of your life to hold on to what liberty you have left.

First the HA will silence your politicians and next they will come after the average man , woman and child that dares speaks against them!

They have the weapons, you do not! They have battle harden and seasoned fighters and a new wind in the sails of their belief that only they know what is best for Lebanon.

Stop regurgitating crap about land, territory and lost and forgotten prisoners.

You will have nothing left if you let the HA use those excuses to let them keep their weapons which have now become symbols of your liberty in chains.

[Asiason]

None of those issues matter right now someone!

You are in the fight of your life to hold on to what liberty you have left.

First the HA will silence your politicians and next they will come after the average man , woman and child that dares speaks against them!

They have the weapons, you do not! They have battle harden and seasoned fighters and a new wind in the sails of their belief that only they know what is best for Lebanon.

Stop regurgitating crap about land, territory and lost and forgotten prisoners.

You will have nothing left if you let the HA use those excuses to let them keep their weapons which have now become symbols of your liberty in chains.

[someone]

Asiason,

"Stop regurgitating crap about land, territory and lost and forgotten prisoners.

You will have nothing left if you let the HA use those excuses to let them keep their weapons which have now become symbols of your liberty in chains. "

So why "israel" give them thoses excuses ? I say again , a one-sided retreat is not a global solution,Sharon was wrong.